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Moridin
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 70
Location: Dont turn around!
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sarge wrote: | I'm keeping a close eye on this one Nige as I am only 11 years behind you and I dont think anyone will want to hire a short sighted sniper
We've been round the block so we DO know whats round the corner
Vets rule |
I thought you were role-playing a short sighted sniper.........
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comedyofhate
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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hmm, having thought about this a bit more.
leave the rules as they are. everyone is heroic, let everyone be heroes. age should not matter one bit. every player that gens a bog standard new character has the same starting options.
Simple is always good. 
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Acting Lt. Col James Bryant
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sm0keyb
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 1359
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Age |
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| comedyofhate wrote: | | If you are under 18, the big thing imo would be to create your IC rationale carefully. if you dont look 40, dont create a character who would realistically need to be 40 to be in their rank / position. |
This started off from the remark above. The inverse of it is equally relevant: If you look /are sixty three don't play a character that would never be recruited into the SEF at such an advanced age. Tony's remark acknowledges that rank/position/skills go hand in hand with seniority.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | leave the rules as they are. everyone is heroic, let everyone be heroes. age should not matter one bit.* every player that gens a bog standard new character has the same starting options. |
*My underlining.
I have to disagree utterly with Tony on this for three principal reasons:
1) A system of merits & flaws available at char gen would enable players to give a lot more "colour" to their character than the straightforward skillset does.
2) The system is great for bringing new characters in with a skillset that makes them immediately useful, so they don't get left on the sidelines & lose interest but in achieving that it has become blind to the fact that age/seniority will always bring with it greater experience & expertise.
3) Speaking purely personally, I FEEL 63, however much younger I look. The objective of the games framework surely is to be able to create characters that players identify with, believe in, want to play & enjoy playing. I do not FEEL like a forty year old that has been prematurely aged. I cannot believe in a pensioner whose skill set can be matched by an 18 year old, I DO want to carry on playing but I am beginning to enjoy it less.
I absolutely accept that my position is unusual cos I am so much older but I firmly believe that elements of it are not unique to me.
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Armchair warriors study tactics. Professionals study logistics
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Richard Tyler
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 413
Location: Cardiff
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| A bit like the old 'Veteran of the Wierd West' skill for Deadlands ? extra shnackys for providing a thorough background (usually containing plenty of jucy details to screw you over at a later date ) On a more basic level would people be aggreable prehaps to a trade up of body or vitality for extra skills at character gen ? Just a thought and would need properly exploring but could work in situations like this. |
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Jess Parker
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 693
Location: Under the Phobos with a wrench
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | On a more basic level would people be aggreable prehaps to a trade up of body or vitality for extra skills at character gen ? |
I totally agree with this. It would make the character more realistic to play and introduce a flaw without having to write up lots of specific flaws.
You can chose one extra body/vitality at character gen dependant on what background you decide on so why not let it work the other way. By bringing in a veteran option to those initial choices you could include the option to reduce body/vitality in favour of another skill.
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comedyofhate
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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well if people are determined that older characters are going to get access to more skills. what does 1 vitality equate to0?
A single skill pick? more than one Is there going to be a limitation based on the skill picks?
based on training time? how much training time?
or just skill picks?
if body / vitality is going to be spent I would reccomend body not vitality if its just a single skill pick, as vitality is easily gained every event and represents how heroic a character is whilst body represents physical health.. Normaly humans should only have 3.
Oh and what about characters who just never really exercised much or who are invalids who dont get otu much? can they get access to the merit / flaw? What if they they have been both old and invalids can they get it twice? What about the degeneration of reactions? Oh and how older people generally take a longer time to heal from serious injuries?
Oh and If someone who was 18, is happy to wear a grey wig and make themselves look old I presume everybody would be happy with them taking that (merit/flaw)? Oh and would all older players be forced to take this merit and flaw? Based on Nigels assumption that older characters should have a greater depth of experience, then presumably all of them would have to take it?
Dont get me wrong I am fairly neutral to the idea of of it, my main concern is game balance for starting characters. It could work well for for NEW characters .I dont like the idea for ret conning EXISTING characters to give them more snackies.
Iif merits and flaws are introduced I would advise making sure each merit comes with a flaw that cannot be purchased off, cannot be removed with snazy equipment and is a genuine flaw. Anything that promotes min maxing, will essentially turn me off the system completely.
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Richard Tyler
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 413
Location: Cardiff
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well it would have to be decided at character gen, so no ret-conning. As for costs it would need to be worked out properly but 1 body or 3 vitality doesn't sound unreasonable. There would need to be caveats I'd guess (like wearing a grey wig and beard if they arent naturally occuring  ) and only purchaceable once. It's not really merits and flaws and I dont think anyone is suggesting that. It's just a potential way of answering the problem. |
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Tabitha Becker
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 281
Location: In yr base blueing on yr blues
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| comedyofhate wrote: | | Oh and what about characters who just never really exercised much or who are invalids who dont get otu much? can they get access to the merit / flaw? |
I'd say yes. If it's available to one, it should be available to all, and then why you have it is character based.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | What if they they have been both old and invalids can they get it twice? |
Without expressing an opinion on this one way or another, I'd say if we agree the idea is good and the cost is fair then it probably doesn't matter - if you are burning body points then you don't have that many to play with. However see my very last point.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | What about the degeneration of reactions? Oh and how older people generally take a longer time to heal from serious injuries? |
We'd need to agree a fair cost for the benefit. It would seem less complicated to do this through one mechanism (e.g. body) rather than spread over lots, if that's possible.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Oh and If someone who was 18, is happy to wear a grey wig and make themselves look old I presume everybody would be happy with them taking that (merit/flaw)? |
I would have no problem with that.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Oh and would all older players be forced to take this merit and flaw? Based on Nigels assumption that older characters should have a greater depth of experience, then presumably all of them would have to take it? |
I'd say no - it's already been pointed out that (a) I for one would have no trouble accepting Nigel as a 40-50 year old if he wanted to play that, and (b) there are all sorts of character backgrounds which mean you might not have so much experience despite being older e.g. you had a career change later in life.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | I dont like the idea for ret conning EXISTING characters to give them more snackies. |
Not disagreeing but just remember anyone who got something extra would also have to pay the price, and if we agree it's a fair price then maybe we'd be OK with that. I guess the only thing is they'd have had less chance of dying previously due to less body so should possibly pay a higher price.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Iif merits and flaws are introduced I would advise making sure each merit comes with a flaw that cannot be purchased off... |
Yes although if you took this at the start and then later decided to spend downtime on building up your body instead of getting skills, while everyone else who already has the body is getting more skills, that would be fair, wouldn't it? Sort of like early -> late Daniel Jackson. As long as we all agree the cost and the benefit are equivalent.
In a way I quite like this as it opens up the idea of a genuinely nerdy scientist who needs to be combat averse as they are a lot less likely to survive it. This would also make military characters a lot more necessary in certain 'bodyguard' scenarios as they'd be looking after people who really needed looking after.
On the other hand, this would make certain characters a lot less 'heroic' in an action sense and would some players feel they were carrying, or taking a greater risk on behalf of, other players? Could be argued as more realistic though.
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Tabitha Katherine Becker
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Klaus Von Bekk
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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i like this idea, having the ability to make my character nerdy and weak i would have definately chosen it in favour to get more skills, (ie: i spend time reading books instead of at the gym)
i think 1 or 2 body for one extra skill choice at char gen is good, and as previously stated its up to the background as to why they have it 
i think remove body not vitality, as you can be a weedy hero,
i also like the idea of double buying a skill to max out the cards on it
ie: 1 char gen skill spent on mech eng give a 6 card hand
2 char gen skills spent on mech eng give an 8/9 card hand
to represent specailists
will x
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Meyrick
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Here there and everywhere
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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It seems to be worthwhile looking at this and working out the numbers.
My humble opinions on the matter are...
1. Initially we just look at the extra-skills-for-physical-stats solution. Full blown merits and flaws require a lot more policing as players are absolutely ingenious when it comes to combining seemingly innocuous elements into a game-breaking horror. That's not to rule out more interesting things, just to say we should take it slowly.
2. We don't revise any existing characters. It happens and character gen and not thereafter.
3. We don't force anyone to take "merits & flaws" - they can decide as suits their background. After all, my Aikido teacher was over seventy and he could beat me like a wet fish without breaking sweat. Likewise I’m overweight and my back is kronked, so I'm hardly a model of fitness at 38.
4. The numbers should balance out so that, roughly speaking, you get as much 'extra downtime' to buy extra skills with as it would have taken to earn the Vitality or Body you cash in. Numbers we will wiggle about with, obviously.
5. We put a 'sensible' limit on how much of this can be done. I'd want to avoid the equivalent of the "magical twigs" (spell-casting elves usually) that other systems can allow. Supremely powerful until you actually hit them, at which point they instantly die. The idea should be to expand the area of the bell curve that we are using, but not open up the entire thing.
6. Whatever you take, like everything else in the game, should be roleplayed out… even if that does mean having to put up with more emo-ing from certain people.
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