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| Do you think jammy / lucky bastard feats are? |
| Two powerful? |
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16% |
[ 5 ] |
| Not powerful enough? |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| We need to take away the trade up? |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Take the permanent version to use once per day? |
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16% |
[ 5 ] |
| Remove them all together? |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Put in a fatigue cost for their use? |
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12% |
[ 4 ] |
| Leave them alone! |
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9% |
[ 3 ] |
| They add to the fun, and help characters feel heroic? |
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35% |
[ 11 ] |
| They take away any threat? |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
| Make them more powerful! |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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| Author |
Message |
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Dangermouse
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 196
Location: Bristol
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 Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
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To my mind, and I appreciate its a personal opinion, without a sense of risk then some of the fun goes out the window.
Having so many JBs and LBs that nothing can touch you makes it less fun. In addition it merely ups the ante for the refs to provide you with a challenge and that makes the risk to non-combat characters exceptionally high.
Having characters specialiase is fine and making some characters more vulnerable in combat than others is OK, but I think everyone needs to face some risk from day to day critters.
Having JBs and LBs is good, it is cinematic - however it could easily turn in to a farce if their isn`t some sort of balance.
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Last edited by Dangermouse on Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fenric
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Having been a player and now a referee, I see both sides of the fence, and have both used the feats and had to ref people by it. Simon (Dangermouse)'s comments are the ones which are fairly close to my personal opinion on the matter.
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sm0keyb
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 1359
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Broz wrote: |
Having seen combats grind to a halt I think it's important that a chracter can (at a cost to their feats) step up, start kicking arse and lead from the front. |
This is a monster problem for anyone who isn't a hard arsed dedicated combat bunny. If someone with a sackful of of JBs or LBs goes roaring off into the fight like General Custer, anyone who tries to follow is likely to be in sheepdip if they are not bulletproof as well. More or less everybody likes to get into a combat at some point but nobody wants to suicide their character following someone with combat stats they can't match without ignoring all the other feats that enhance a well rounded character. JBs & LBs are vital to the cinematic & heroic nature of the game & actually there is nothing wrong with stockpiling them but rolling them out like smarties in a combat so you can storm the bad guys single handed without regard for other characters is bad gamesmanship.
| Broz wrote: | (just hope you never need to .......... get infected with somthing.)
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Why would you? 
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Armchair warriors study tactics. Professionals study logistics
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Fenric
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| sm0keyb wrote: |
JBs & LBs are vital to the cinematic & heroic nature of the game & actually there is nothing wrong with stockpiling them but rolling them out like smarties in a combat so you can storm the bad guys single handed without regard for other characters is bad gamesmanship.
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And yet that's exactly what happens - thus some people overstatting monsters - and it escalates into a combat death spiral
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Dangermouse
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 196
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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One solution would be to limit the number of JB/LBs per day to represent combat experience etc.
E.g. Military Background character - max 5 per day
Non-military - max 2 per day
The above are only an example.
You can hold/build up as many as you like - the limit on use is a reflection of your training and general jamminess.
Then,perhaps, make the upgrade of JB not a free use, but to increase your cap by 1 (use 5JBs and you can then use 6JBs a day) etc
You get to keep the skill, combat focussed characters have the edge, their use is toned down a bit, but they can be used cinematically.
Just a thought and I`m sure there`s holes in this.
In terms of keeping track of them JDs database lets us know what skills we have and we write down what feats we take and use so I don`t think that side is going to be a big issue.
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Jean-Pierre
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Fenric wrote: | | sm0keyb wrote: |
JBs & LBs are vital to the cinematic & heroic nature of the game & actually there is nothing wrong with stockpiling them but rolling them out like smarties in a combat so you can storm the bad guys single handed without regard for other characters is bad gamesmanship.
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And yet that's exactly what happens - thus some people overstatting monsters - and it escalates into a combat death spiral |
Even newbies can charge into heavy combat with the tanks as long as they remember the cover rules. Cover well and truely rocks but a lot of people forget the rules and get manged
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Duncan Waterhouse
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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To my mind, JBs are a tradeoff. Non-coms may consider one a day in case of sudden attack, coms may do two out of three a day; more if it's one of those days/expected invasions etc. Even minmaxing scum with nine JBs on a 3 dayer use them and you've shivved yourself once you've hit 2 or 3 events where Natural Immunities and Torture Resistances from chargen have been burned.
LB's - this IMHO is the problem. You now got a free JB on each mission. So your typical JB use gets lessened and stockpiled for those bad days. You end up with two LBs per mission. And the jollity continues as some of us have 7 or 8 events under our belts - how many LBs is that now?
Non-coms have 7 x 3 = 21. 5+6+7 = Three LBs per mission!
Coms have 7 x 6 = 42. 5+6+7+8+9 = Five LBs per mission! (on the way to six) Be afraid.
Suggestion 1: LBs do one Vitality damage per use. You do get them per mission after all. You still get pagg'd by a Jaffa crossfire, be heroic, drop a Personal Sense of Purpose if it gets bad rather than taking Jammy Bs. I would also mandate roleplaying JBs and LBs (a minimum of one step away from the source of damage and looking alarmed (even mildly) while doing so); last event was sorely lacking in this IMHO.
Suggestion 2: Don't be shy of using other calls for encounters. Pain calls (use that Torture Resistance), Incapacitate and other happiness. And if someone starts calling Flame, just kill them on principle.
I praise cover being a civvie and as one who has to cocoon themselves at base usually someone brings an alien artifact that needs attention as Capt. Fitzgerald would say roit dis focking minit you see troops at work when Jaffas need juicing...
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dan
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Easy fix - only allow 1 LB and cap JB to 5.
As long as you match the lowered power level with the monsters, it's all good. It's even easy to convert the existing multiple LB's back into 5 JB and allow the player to exceed 5 until they use them up.
Yes, it will make combat more lethal and tense, cover more important and people much more afraid of combat - all of which is good stuff (IMNSHO). |
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Bill Savage
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think the real issue here is how lethal should the system be?
I have played in systems where 1 in 4 player fatalities over a mission was considered the norm. This resulted in players creating "hard" characters that could survive and a much more limited RP experience.
My experience is that the lower the lethality the more interesting non-com type characters there are.
A character death should be an event worth noting. If the fatalities rise out of the single figure percentages it is difficult to avoid becoming indifferent to character death.
A hardened combatant should be as difficult to take down (let alone kill) as it is for a highly experienced techie to fail at a problem.
In my opinion
Cheers
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