Esther
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Sniper shotSomeone else where said something about there are no automatic kills. Surely Sniper shot is?
Regardless of how hard etc you are it takes you to -4 which is dead in 60 seconds, that's very close to an automatic kill.
Reasonable or not?
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Symonds
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Need to check but I had a Jaffa get up and shoot back after a Sniper shot ?
So im not sure its a instant kill, I did ask the Jaffa "wtf" and he was pretty sure that he was right
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Fenric
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Yes, because the Jaffa is only on -4, in a minute or so he can go to -3 and start to get up. -4 is basically "dying" - but it's not death.
The reason for why sniper does so much more than critical hit is that it's one single weapon type which is deliberately designed to do this much damage.
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Esther
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"This feat may be used only once, it reduces the target immediately to –4. Ignores Armour and Vitality. May allow other special moves at referees discretion (such as shooting at a specific object, rope, etc…) "
No where in the damge discriptions does it say when you go uncontouse though so theoretically you have 60 sec before you die..
I was told regen stops at -4 so it's a kill on both jaffa and Gou'ald.
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Esther
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| Fenric wrote: | | Yes, because the Jaffa is only on -4, in a minute or so he can go to -3 and start to get up. -4 is basically "dying" - but it's not death. |
except i was told regen stops working at -4
| Fenric wrote: |
The reason for why sniper does so much more than critical hit is that it's one single weapon type which is deliberately designed to do this much damage. |
To a human.. doesn't mean it will still stop something much, much harder in a single blow.
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Esther
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Personally I'd like both sniper and critical hit to do a set amount of damage having more body should effect these things not just how many dinks from small weapons you can take.
Similarly it would then mean doing more than one critical hit could take someone down faster.. at the moment you hit someone with a critical, they keep moving, all be it hurt.. you can't then put them down with a second one cos they dont' go below -1.
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Moridin
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But if the sniper has shot you in the eye then your going to go down like a sack regardless of how hard you are, sniper shot represents the character aiming for a weak point/ vulnerable spot. Its all about roleplaying, at the end of the day it shouldnt do a set amount of damage. People who are on 17 points can then just soak up well aimed shots to the head, and thats just unrealistic. Sniper shot puts you to -4, deal with it.
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The Kibble
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there are things which can be used to counter sniper shot i.e jammy bastard/dodger or having a shield up.
the question here is sniper shot dropping anyone to -4 and ignoring armour game breaking?
Would it be better if it did it's damage (7) ignoring vitality?
tbh I am not sure either way on this one as it also ties into critical hit.
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MajorMasters
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| The Kibble wrote: | there are things which can be used to counter sniper shot i.e jammy bastard/dodger or having a shield up.
the question here is sniper shot dropping anyone to -4 and ignoring armour game breaking?
Would it be better if it did it's damage (7) ignoring vitality?
tbhtbh I am not sure either way on this one as it also ties into critical hit. |
leave it as is. Sniping doesn't happen much due to ref and radio requirements. Plus frankly a sniper hit should be hideous I am not sure either way on this one as it also ties into critical hit.[/quote]
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Freeman
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| The Kibble wrote: | there are things which can be used to counter sniper shot i.e jammy bastard/dodger or having a shield up.
the question here is sniper shot dropping anyone to -4 and ignoring armour game breaking?
Would it be better if it did it's damage (7) ignoring vitality?
tbh I am not sure either way on this one as it also ties into critical hit. |
Leave Sniper Shot as it is - a reffed call.
Ittakes time to line up a shot, so you you're not going to sniper a running jaffa, and it does need a ref each end, so it's of limited use.
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Esther
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| Freeman wrote: |
Leave Sniper Shot as it is - a reffed call.
Ittakes time to line up a shot, so you you're not going to sniper a running jaffa, and it does need a ref each end, so it's of limited use. |
Is it? Where does it say that?
I can see in some situations it has to be but what about our bunker of snipers who were in front of the gate last event. They were close enough to call the shot on thier own to anyone at the gate.
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Moridin
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Actually we had to tell the ref b4 hand how many shots we had so he could breif the Jaffa to fall over as soon as they came through. TBH most people in the system take their hits, thats what ive seen anyway, and it makes the game so much better for it, the refs trust us. So if we had to call out to the jaffa they would have taken the hit, but yes there should be a ref Im told. I thought it was for sniper specific missions as well.
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Esther
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It doens't say that in the rules which si what this whole area of the board is about. If it has to be by ref that should be added to the feat discription.
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Fenric
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I'm waiting for the moment when I can actually use the extra bit in the rules that allows me to sniper shot a rope so that I can drop the villain into a vat of acid.
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Esther
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| Moridin wrote: | | But if the sniper has shot you in the eye then your going to go down like a sack regardless of how hard you are, sniper shot represents the character aiming for a weak point/ vulnerable spot. Its all about roleplaying, at the end of the day it shouldnt do a set amount of damage. People who are on 17 points can then just soak up well aimed shots to the head, and thats just unrealistic. Sniper shot puts you to -4, deal with it. |
Ok i left this a minute before answering becouse meant or not it felt like a go at me personally. For the record I am not saying this becouse I'm Tok'Ra I'd say the same if I was playing random bod. I think most who know me will confirm i am far from a powergamer and the Tok'Ra thing is purely a result of roleplay stuff not an attempt to power up, whatever the result.. i also play devils advoicat in these discussion sometimes to make sure all sides are looked at.
Any way that out the way..
Firstly this is a rules discusssion. the point of such discussinons is to discuss and see if there are any chances we want to make not to say that's the rule live with it.
I dont' see why just becouse someone is trained to take out a human with a single shot they will nessecarlay be able to take out other different and sometimes less human opponents with out extra training (ie extra feats) a shot in the eye isn't always as fatal if your physiology is different.
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Fenric
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| Keser/Keresh wrote: | | Moridin wrote: | | But if the sniper has shot you in the eye then your going to go down like a sack regardless of how hard you are, sniper shot represents the character aiming for a weak point/ vulnerable spot. Its all about roleplaying, at the end of the day it shouldnt do a set amount of damage. People who are on 17 points can then just soak up well aimed shots to the head, and thats just unrealistic. Sniper shot puts you to -4, deal with it. |
I dont' see why just becouse someone is trained to take out a human with a single shot they will nessecarlay be able to take out other different and sometimes less human opponents with out extra training (ie extra feats) a shot in the eye isn't always as fatal if your physiology is different. |
I would agree with that if the alien was anatomically different - i.e. a blob monster - but not if it was humanoid... a brain is a brain (most of the time) - and I do think Crit and Sniper work well (with the exception that if you use two crits I think it should go to -2 rather than have no effect).
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Esther
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| Fenric wrote: |
I would agree with that if the alien was anatomically different - i.e. a blob monster - but not if it was humanoid... a brain is a brain (most of the time) - and I do think Crit and Sniper work well (with the exception that if you use two crits I think it should go to -2 rather than have no effect). |
except the most likey target ie a Gou'ald has a back up brain. it's called the symbiote who is tied directly to the nervous system and able to run it on thier own and in fact does all the time unless they are a Tok'Ra.
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Moridin
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Bloody hell tokra have 17 points!!!!!!! who knew? Not a go at you personaly. lol but I can see why you would take it as one. I still stand by what I said though, you are human so a bulliet through your brain should stop you or any gould. Saying it does xy amount of damage instead is a bit naff. As for a blob monster we will just play that by ear, personaly i would be inclined to attack it with a mop and bucket.
So to sum it up, I think it should stay the same.
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Esther
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| Moridin wrote: | | Bloody hell tokra have 17 points!!!!!!! who knew? Not a go at you personaly. lol but I can see why you would take it as one. |
Nope i have 7 body not 17.. still gross but not that gross.
I just dislike one shot kills I wouldn't be dead happy if it was a Gou'ald who was in the process of killing me who went down to it.. especally see my point above about you needing to hit the symbiote really not the host.
I have had lots and lots of discussion IC about this to try and train up some poeple so they CAN take a Gou'ald down, risking letting them know how to take me out and knowing some want to do just that. Personally I'd prefer you needed more training to do that but I also don't expect the rules always to be the way i want them.
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Fenric
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| Keser/Keresh wrote: | | Fenric wrote: |
I would agree with that if the alien was anatomically different - i.e. a blob monster - but not if it was humanoid... a brain is a brain (most of the time) - and I do think Crit and Sniper work well (with the exception that if you use two crits I think it should go to -2 rather than have no effect). |
except the most likey target ie a Gou'ald has a back up brain. it's called the symbiote who is tied directly to the nervous system and able to run it on thier own and in fact does all the time unless they are a Tok'Ra. |
It's a parasite though, it does need the "body" of the host to be able to move around and you're destroying the brain of the body... and as per the Stargatepedia site
Utilizing their powerful, four-pronged jaws, they burrow through the back of the neck (or through the soft tissue at the back of the mouth), wrapping themselves around the victim's upper spinal column and into the brain. Instantaneously the Goa'uld has control of the physical body, suppressing the original individual's consciousness.
So while the symbiote could survive possibly (and to be honest in that sitation, you put a 7.62 through the throat and that'll hit the spinal cord as well slapping them both down) the body wouldn't.
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Moridin
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Ok so at the next event gather up the snipers and tell us where is the best place to put a round in a gould. We spend like 1 hour practicing and jobs a good one. Hows hat sound?
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Fenric
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I had Doctor Kibble explaining it to me where I need to hit one with a sword at the last event - I think I practiced on Skippy - who I'm amazed let me stand there and come at him with the double daggers of kibble death.
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Moridin
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we need to share the info more, that would be useful. maybe we can organise some lectures like How to kill a Gould 101.
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Fenric
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I'm sure Tom would be willing to have Doctor Kibble lecture everyone... but if he does I would suggest the normal "Doctor Kibble Lecture Series" precautions.
1. A pillow
2. A pair of sunglasses (so you can sleep unnoticed)
3. A dictophone with fast forward
4. A really bezza mate who will stay awake to give you the important bits afterwards
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Broz
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That or just use bigger bullets.
(having just ordered 5 x .50 BMG with the intention of painting them up as Raufoss...those puppies won't leave anything above the waist, let alone the neck.)
I'll be honest, in my experience G'ould tend to come a cropper to single attacks of a special or heroic kind anyway, The nature of the shield means we can't pick away at them.
Personally I'd be more pissed off if a single shot was never capable of killing somthing dead, it's not like feats or aniper ammo are unlimited or free flowing.
Like the idea with stacking criticals, I'll be honest I've never found a knock to -1 to be desperatly effective, especially as vitality is untouched (maybe stripping vitality would be a better alternative?)
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comedyofhate
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Sniper shot, very simple the players use it, the crew are rarely if ever issued the feat and then it is only used against NPC's.
The ethos of the game is that players are heros, and it is far better to have a hero crawling off with there one good arm than have them lying in the gutter from an NPC's one shot kill. It is like many feats and skills it is only used by the player base. You may have noticed that last event the jafar and gouald hardly ever called out any feat calls at all....
AS for its PVP potential, Stargate is not a PVP game, you are hero's. I have only seen one serious PVP incident, and that was just someone being careless with spray fire.
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Fenric
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Some bugger shot me in the leg on Friday night, Calvin...
I mean... some bugger shot me in the leg on Friday night
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Fenric
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| Broz wrote: | That or just use bigger bullets.
(having just ordered 5 x .50 BMG with the intention of painting them up as Raufoss...those puppies won't leave anything above the waist, let alone the neck.) |
I didn't realise until this minute that it was Broz that I should be more terrified of, rather than Calvin.
For those that aren't aware of Broz, I mean Calvin, I mean Broz's obsession with all things large and painful the .50 BMG is on the left
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Esther
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| comedyofhate wrote: |
AS for its PVP potential, Stargate is not a PVP game, you are hero's. I have only seen one serious PVP incident, and that was just someone being careless with spray fire. |
Don't go distroying my paranoia Keser KNOWS some of the other UKGC staff want her dead. 
I'm happy to go with the flow just through it was worth putting forward.
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Moridin
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Now its not you we want dead Keser......................
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Esther
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She isn't worried about you !!!
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cat
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| Fenric wrote: |
I didn't realise until this minute that it was Broz that I should be more terrified of, rather than Calvin.
For those that aren't aware of Broz, I mean Calvin, I mean Broz's obsession with all things large and painful the .50 BMG is on the left
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Part of the reason Highway was using one of these for the pervious two events:
Didn't bring it to the last one, though light, its a pain to carry and the mag vis-rep are hugh (4 x normal long-sniper)
particulaly when a simple rifle does the same job....
As for sniper shots, They require a feat, a vis-rep wepon and ammo, for a one shot kill, I don't see a major issue.
The only thing would be, can go'auld regen at -4? If so cool, if not Hmm
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Paul_Howe
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IMHO sniper is one of the most thought out and characterful calls in the game don't change it 'cause it's great.
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Theo
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Personally i've never seen any use of Sniper Shot that has caused what i would call 'a problem' or ever made me in any way concerned for the balance of the game. As such i stand firmly in the It Ain't Broke So...corner.
Though that is, of course, just me personally.
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Doc Benton
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the definition of a sniper is "some one who is skilled enough to place a single shot (or burrst) at his target with deadly accuracy with out giving his or her postion away and then if needed reposition and fire agane"
this is a one shot one kill
to be honest what are you going for head shots when you could go for a gut/stomach/neck shot and kill the symbiot and put him/ her down for good
now i know that if you combine 2 skills you can get a death strike in hand to hand (melee) perhapes the refes could alow snipers (and only snipers as it would just kill the game to let aney jo crow with a hand weapon do it)
to have a simler attack over range? as a special or elite attack?
this would solve the problem and put sniper were thay should be on the death on a stick list.
eather way there hard as hell and you dont what to be on the wrong side of them at all.
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Esther
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I said a while ago i was happy to go with it and everyone else seems to be happy so we can kill this thread.. though it's interesting to hear views.
Unless people want to continue to agree with themselves
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