| Archive for Stargate LRP (SEF) Official Forum for Stargate LRP (SEF) |
| comedyofhate |
smoke grenadescurrently, ooh smoke from smoke grenades its Ic, but a bit shit. Errm bollocks.These http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/p-jokes/fav/smoke-bombs.html are smoke grenades. Do not inhale. do not use indoors. But look less bollocks. Require a lighter. will not burn down forests. Is it harsh for smoke grenades to be represented with smoke. Or will buying and using the phys reps for smoke bombs make baby jesus cry. |
||||
| MajorMasters |
I have used smokegrenades at paintball sites and loved then.
However I have always had a nagged feeling if I hurled one at a larp event I would incurr the wrath of asma, asmha, assma (i cant spell it) sufferers and rightly so. |
||||
| Colonel_moletov |
why dont we just get smke/big bang grenades, like we use in airsoft .... there cheap and look and sound awesome,
Sean |
||||
| comedyofhate |
hmm asthma suffers,
not being nasty okay I am being very nasty. but frankly errm tough. If I want to do scissor paper stone larp, i will do that type of larp. Yes this is bad for asthma suffers. it is unfair. I want people rolling around in dirt I want people to put hands in the box and realise they are holding sheep entrails. I want strobe lighting effects I want larp to be outside in the countryside with flowers and pollen, and stinging beasties. I want some cramped enclosed spaces for players to crawl in. i want people to cut open the loaf of bread to find it stuffe with maggots on the inside. I want huge sandy hills, which is deeply knackering to run up, and could cause problems for fat knackers like me. I want it for stargate as I enjoy it as a player, I suspect I am not the only one. |
||||
| Olivia Chase |
Speaking as the wife of one, and occassional sufferer this can be got round, but you do need to be sensible about it. A) it should be on the medical conditions on the membership forms, so you know in advance who it may affect. If no one on that linear is on the list go ahead. B) Ensure at the start of the event that they have their inhalers with them (Players of medical staff can make this an IC thing, ie not allowed through the doughnut without them). HOWEVER - Asthma can kill, putting your hand in maggots doesn't. Sure, there are larpers who have used their asthma to winge, but we have to ensure, as a society that we are not willfully endangering the health of our members, which merely saying 'tough' can be seen as doing, if something bad happens. I don't mind smoke grenades, strobe lighting (I love that stuff!), all that gubbins, but you do need to put stuff in place to make sure you are covered. |
||||
| MajorMasters |
I think its fairly obvious that I am aways happy to volunteer to crawl through muddy holes, run up hills, get covered in water etc etc etc etc. So yes please more of that 
|
||||
| Richard Tyler |
I want you to run an event |
||||
| comedyofhate |
Good points there.
Actually very good points, in regards to making sure people take their asthma inhalers with them I would be deeply annoyed if i found out if this was not the case on any mission, smoke bomb or not... Smoke bombs are for outdoor use only, and to be fair are mostly a player thing. So assuming disclaimers on the event forms, making sure we have rules such as not throwing smoke bombs actually at people. No hitting people with them. no feeding them to players. i did search the net, scarily this little in the way of safety guides for smoke bombs / grenades General safety rules such http://extremesports.suite101.com....cfm/playing_paintball_with_smoke and an advert for a smoke grenade are about it after twenty minutes of searching. http://www.tlsfx.co.uk/p-52-smoke-grenade-instructions.aspx Like most things as long as we have safety rules, I cannot see any problem using them. is oddly all i can find on safety rules for it. |
||||
| Fenric |
Fake Sheep Entrails ? |
||||
| Broz |
No problems with the cool fx, hell it was awesome when rob started letting off flash bombs. But TBH unless you are going to spend big money on proper smokes then don't bother.
The sort you linked to are fine for an effect, coloured smoke being a nice way to simulate poison gas and the like, but as actual smoke generators for cover they are a load of old bollocks, and that's when they work. Stopped wasting my money on them at woodland paintball and airsoft for that reason. Fun for urban and CQB, but that's because taping four together, chucking them into a small room and barracading the door is a great way of dealing with pesky snipers and ppl with hot bb hoses... While I think about it on the strobe lighting point, yes it is awesome and I'd like to see it. However I can think of at least one player who would be very, very seriously affected by it and so I would advise caution and consultancy with the players for anyone thinking of messing with sudden, very bright, rapid pulsed lighting. |
||||
| Colonel_moletov |
I have asthma and I have only ever had a problem with smoke grenades in enclosed spaces and when about 20 have been set off. Otherwise im a OK,
Sean |
||||
| Harry Font |
anuthing that goes bang or generates heat, smole, fumes is a bad isea .. look at what our insurance allows..
if you allow them then be prepaired for a law suite for injuries caused by said device, or for damage to property. sorry to be a grumpy fucker but thats the way it will go.. having seen how twatish people have been in other systems.. and how people ignore calls in UKGC during combat, due to the fact thatthey cant hear them, then any thing that actually goes bang/produces smoke.. will end up in a players face (an improvement for some.. sorry dave :O) or the groin.. saftey first as i like playing the system and dont wnat it shut down duse to someone dying through having a smoke grenade in the face |
||||
| Broz |
Well as long as the insurance covers it (and since it has already been done I assume it does) controlled pyrotechnics are awesome (I'm thinking the War World mission here.)
However for general player use no, smoke grenades can create a hell of a mess and are a fire hazard in the summer, and flashbangs can be quite shockingly loud and blindingly bright, espechially if we start using Mk9s or Thermobarics and I suspect it would be far too disruptive to play considering what a disorganised bunch of loonies we are. |
||||
| Duncan Waterhouse |
As one of the outed asthma sufferers I can confirm that smoke grenades are OK but should definitely be ref use only. As much as I respect my fellow players there are too many possible fubars. | ||||
| darren1 |
Also it too many bangs and explosions are going off it will be even harder for damage calls to be heard. | ||||
| Harry Font |
the only pyros used have been by refs.. and in a secired area..
THERE SHOULD NEVER BE PLAYER PYROS same for smoke grenades. It's this simple. We have seen what nutters there are in Larp.. woould you trust some with a pyro that you didnt know 110% Having seen people take off the skin on one hand, one well know UKGC player blinding himself with flash powder for a while.. the answer is simple no pyro's or smoke devices for players.. it's mot safe |
||||
| kiwi |
the only way you could do this is to have larp safe dummy grenades,
the player throws them where they land the ref sets off a smoke grenade only if safe to do so the then stays there to put it out properly and to make sure some morron doesnt touch it then the item should be recovered by the ref those of us who have used the real stuff have some idea of how dangeous they really are and like alex says there are maybe two to four poeple I would personally trust with such items ps only refs who have some training should use them, because I kid you not they will remove hands fingers and other essential body parts if you are still hlding them. but over all I would like to see some used at the approiate times and places |
||||
| comedyofhate |
Hmm,
oddly the main source of smoke bombs / grenades I always expected was from players, not from the ref team. Now if the case is that you would prefer to have them employed only by the ref crew for the event. Fair play. you are after all paying for the system. Actual Flash Bangs, I didn't even realise they existed for air soft. I dont think they would be a good idea mostly based on how they work, and the way our system works. I deeply suspect they would be very unpopular with the crew. Strobe light effects. Have been used before at Stargate, will probably be used again. I think something happened to the strobe box, I cannot remember what. A lot of systems used strobe lighting. This is not an uncommon piece of kit... Yes they can cause epiletic fits. so can the torch lights at night used by players. Do we ban all night time missions? As an extreme point of view, I have a friend who only larps during the winter and early spring late autumn. biting insects = very extreme reaction. Not that he would ever even dream of doing something like stargate but if I do persuade him. Does that mean we no longer run events in the summer if he wishes to attend and play? I have no idea what is covered by the insurance in this regards, nor who is going to be on the insurance. |
||||
| Tabitha Becker |
At the very least, you have to give people the information to protect themselves whenever possible. Your friend knows when it is summer, and knows there are flies in the summer, and knows s/he's allergic. No problem there. Similarly, I guess people can tell quite easily when it is dark and there are torches switched on and can avoid playing night-time missions. Strobe lights are known to cause epilepsy, so as long as an epileptic player knows that strobe lights will be used on a particular mission, they can opt out of that one. If strobe lights will be used unexpectedly, or thorughout the event, better let people know so no-one spends money on an event they can't participate in. Obviously you can't predict every thing that may cause injury to someone out there. But if you can predict it, you owe it to players to give the heads up and make sure everyone is fully informed. Personally, I'd be sparing with any effect that I knew was going to prevent people from playing. Sometimes people can't play for various personal / health reasons, and some things are such spectacular props that the enjoyment for most players justifies it, but you don't want to be excluding people frequently if it can be avoided. |
||||
| Freeman |
The airsoft site I go two has awesome smoke grenades.
£3.50 per shot, but lay down THICK smoke. Yesterday while doing two tunnel missions the smoke was so thick allwe could see to shoot at were tactical lights (tactical my ass - turn the fucker off, and you won't get shot at) and ankles (swiftly followed by the hands that shot down to hold the now stinging ankles) everyone - and I mean everyone - tat came out of the tunnels were coughing to varying degreed (including the refs who were wearing painting masks), maybe because I counted 10 smokes lobbed in before I lost sight of the doorway. Smokes also worked well in the open field (despite an annoying crosswind). throwing smoike, advancing behind it and throwing more meant that an assult team crossed an open field and almost completely took a defended ridge. Real smoke is awesome. The same airsoft site I go to also sells pea-grenades and flash bangs. Pea grenades are £3 ea flashbangs (they're small ones) are £2 each. All of the above greatly enhance the feeling that one is in a full on war! If we can safely use them in LRP I'm all for it! |
||||
| comedyofhate |
errm no sheep entrails that had been left out in the sun for a couple of days. It was rank but I got a magic ring out of it. I have also jumped off castle walls. ( my kneed are shot because of this!  ) I have climbed castle walls to get the drop on monsters.
I have slid down a 100' down a hillside in the dark ( darkness always seems to help for me), which was about 80 degrees inclincation. (I have crippling vertigo btw which can flare up, never does in the dark though. )
I have also Waded through freezing water at 2am in the morning looking for a fucking tiara. then carried on adventuring for six hours through the night soaking wet. I have fought in a pitch black cave, with uneven footing and pitfalls against monsters who I could only detect by the sound of their breathing. the magoots in bread thing I have seen done to players, it didn't actually happen to me, i merely had to walm the maggots up as the poor little things were cold. As a a stargate ref I dont expect players to do this type of stuff. If they want to, and if it is safe for them to do it, then I am happy. but at the moment I feel we can be genuinely in danger of having amazing storylines, which are denuded because we are afraid to take any risks. At event four, I escorted a player to bed, because the monsters in the dark were freaking them out, no issue no problem I am happy to do this. The encounter carried on and the rest rest of the players carried on. At event six I agree to let a claustrophobic player walk around a crawl space. Everyone has their limits, I am good with this. the rest of the players carried on through the crawl space. but If you are knocked down by a call effect, unless you have a medical reason on your form then I expect you to fall over. If an encounter Is at the top of a hill I expect you to walk up the damn thing. If you are night blind like kate I would not expect her to go on a night time mission, but i would hope players who are not night blind will take part and enjoy this element of the game. If you walk through a stargate, and there is smoke whether by smoke pyro or dry ice (which we had at events 1, 2 and possible 3) and it is bad for you OOC I expect you to get out of the smoke, if you are not then I would hope you to stay in the smoke and have fun or leave depending on what happens. If a strobe light is switched on and it is a serious issue you should leave or cover your eyes with your hands, whatever. As long as the event states that smoke, and strobe lighting effects may take place. If you are happy to take part in the game to the best of your abilities and take reasonable precaustions for your own health their will be no issue. BTW if an OOc dafety issue means you have to take an IC decision that your character dies because of your OOC health issues then tough. Your health is more important. Let me repeat this, your health is more important than your characters. If you dont want to go into the smokey room. dont go into the smokey room. if part of the site is lit by strobe lighting, dont go there. Its happened to me. I have lost a character because my vertigo flared up and I physically could not go down a gentle slope and was thus gutted by the monster crew. The adrenaline was not pumping it was not dark and I could not go down the slope. I did not ask play to be stopped. My ooc limitation was a limitation on my character. My character which i had invested time and effort in died. I was okay with this. As long as people are reasonable, happy to trust refs to use special effects sensibly and our insurance covers it, then there should be no problems. As for smoke grenades. The people who i was expected to be all for them, dont seem to want em, so my intial question/ rant seems to be no longer an iusse.
fluff and happiness to you all.
|
||||
| Colour Sargent Rob Knight |
Smoke sounds like a great Idea providing we're sensable and do think of safty first, the flash bangs sound like they should definatly be held by a ref and deployed when a phis rep is thrown and the ref thinks its safe.
Smoke like the ones robs talking about sound perfect providing we warn people who need to be, look at the safty risks and if there to great don't use them e.g. enclosed spaces, and act like sensable adults when we do use them. (JD you make one crack about my age and I'll have you  ).
I am a mild astma sufferer but have use smoke befor and never had a problem, however while I think its a great idea it does need careful guide lines planning not just a half arsed after thought about it. |
||||
| comedyofhate |
[quote="Tabitha Becker"]
I agree, it has to be stated really that the event may use smoke, and strobe effects may be used. to be fair smoke and strobe effects dont tend to get used that often. So really it will not be an issue. If as a player you are not happy to attend an entire event because part of the event may have strobe effects is that fair on the majority of the players to entirely ommit the possibility of having it in the first place? Fluff and hugs to all as this is probably a contentious issue, and my first post was admittely twatish.
|
||||
| Colour Sargent Rob Knight |
I think there great effects and should be used, but its not difficult to make safe, e.g. if some one has said there asmatic thenbefor a mission that involves them a ref should gently draw them aside an explain OOC whats going on. That way the player can make and informed decision and the risk is contained.
The use of things which scare, disgust and disorentate players (Or crew for that matter) is great and adds a superb effect, but if there is a potential risk however small to life and limb then by letting people know befor a mission then the risk is gone, and then as long as refs make sure there a a wide variet of missions so no one is left excluded or bored then it sounds great. |
||||
| Tabitha Becker |
In case I wasn't clear, what I meant was, that a player might avoid a whole event either if the strobing was likely to happen throughout the event on multiple missions (i.e. not just one or two) OR if it would be unexpected (i.e. they could be exposed to it without having the chance to avoid). I can't imagine any reason why someone wouldn't come to a whole event if the strobing (or other hazard, whatever) would just be on a couple of clearly identified missions. I didn't think your post was too provocative - it's good to discuss all this stuff and see how different people feel about it. |
||||