sm0keyb
|
Shield rulesSo far as I can see, there aren't any!
"Force push" is assigned to ribbon devices in the rules but the accepted wisdom IC seems to be that it's done by projecting the shield forward.
Again, "life drain" is assigned to the ribbon device in the rules. IC it appears to be accepted that you can't life drain thro' a shield.
If, as the rules say they're both ribbon device effects, can you force push with the shield up?
|
Esther
|
Uptil now they ahev been an NPC uber you can't get through this thing.
current ruling is yes as it is an adaption of the sheild where as the other two effects are not and can't be used with shield.
I've been assuming that not only can't you life drain through a sheild you can't fire through one either which is why i wasn't using weapons once I got one.
However how shields work and limitations are being looked at as i think everyone agrees they are too uber at the moment.
I think there needs to be rules and limits but I also don't think they need to be published in the same way.. apart from how they effect charaters, ie force push, life drain, becouse with the exception of me they are purely used by NPCs and it is better to learn IC how they work.. Perhaps its' just me but I think making assumtions Ic is much easier if you dont' know the OOC mecanics behind it and the techies can't play unless I'm involved (or a NPC) cos you can't get them to work.. otherwise you have to think would I make that jump to the right answer? where as if you don't know you are free to make whatever assumtions you make.
|
sm0keyb
|
Yeah, without the shield Goa'uld are really not that tough & the game loses a lot. My next character isn't going to have much fun if he knows "do X & it'll go straight thro' a shield but at the same time if the things a movable feast & can do whatever the random NPC wielding wants it to do, we're never going to beat it & we might as well go home.
What bothers me about the apparent use of ribbon device/shield is the inconsistency. If force push & life drain are both ribbon (hand?) device effects, (as per V3 rules) then both must only work with the shield down. Your actual Goa'uld becomes a sniper magnet & we might as well all go home. If a Goa'uld can do what it likes from behind a shield, force push, life drain, fire a weapon, they're all but unkillable & we might as well all go home.
Force push is a battlefield weapon for the Goa'uld. It makes sense that it is done by extending the shield outwards. Life drain takes about three minutes with a reasonably tough character (ten sec per vitality/body point, again V3 rules). With shield down, anybody doing it in the middle of a battlefield deserves to get sniped.
It makes sense to me to leave life drain a ribbon device effect but make force push a shield effect & to specify that life drain can't be done with the shield up. That is what everybody appears to be playing to anyway.
As far as weapons fire is concerned I'd assumed that the muzzle of a weapon can be poked through the shield, hence can be fired from behind a personal shield.
|
Esther
|
| sm0keyb wrote: |
It makes sense to me to leave life drain a ribbon device effect but make force push a shield effect & to specify that life drain can't be done with the shield up. That is what everybody appears to be playing to anyway. . |
You seem to be stating you want what is already being done to be done, so all good there.
Just becouse there arn't rules written down for the players doens't mean that crew don't know how something works. Only player who needs to know how they work is me and I do. There is a difference between the rules for players and the world background, how things work for crew and the like. If everything is set down and accessable to players there is nothing to learn about IC. If a character wants to know how they work they need to ask someone who knows IC or find some other way to find out.
| sm0keyb wrote: | | As far as weapons fire is concerned I'd assumed that the muzzle of a weapon can be poked through the shield, hence can be fired from behind a personal shield. |
I was assuming it couldn't but it is something i forgot to check with the refs in advance so was playing safe. To me it makes sense it doens't work cos you are inside something designed to reflect/ dampen such things.
|
sm0keyb
|
| Keser/Keresh wrote: |
You seem to be stating you want what is already being done to be done, so all good there.
|
Yep. Just suggesting that such rules as need to be written down reflect that. At the moment they don't.
I'm all for players finding the important stuff IC, that's what playing is all about. I'm only suggesting that what is written down should be consistent and reflect what actually happens IC (or vice verse)
| Keser/Keresh wrote: |
I was assuming it couldn't but it is something i forgot to check with the refs in advance so was playing safe. To me it makes sense it doens't work cos you are inside something designed to reflect/ dampen such things. |
It's a consistency thing again. If you can throw a knife in thro' the shield or throw a staff weapon to a Goa'uld (both from the series) or sidle up close enough to shiv him (The Kibble), why wouldn't you be able to poke a gun barrel out?
|
Harry Font
|
Most G'ould have been using hand devices for 100's of years. though their hosts may not have.
The physioligy of G'ould may allow them to m\nipulate had devices, force sheilds etc slightly diffrent you our selves. L;ets face it the longets we have had a hand device is 2 years ?
Rules for player use of hand devices, shields etc are in the pipe line. I beleive they will eat vitality like the medical hand device does.
They will be handy, but limited handy.
I beeliev you can fire out pf a force field, but only the g'ould who is the center of the device can do that. ( Iam sure that i have seen that on several epesodes, the one where all of of SG-1 get slotte dand the resurected by the floating city people !!)
(expecting a mass slap for not knowing the episode, who worte it, where it was made, running time, budget, length of the the moss on the tree and the tyoe of toe nail make-up used.)
There should be a 2-3 ft gap round the sheild wearer so using the pseon as a shield shoutdnt really work.. i know people have done it in the last event, both players and crew. I dont think this will work in the future.
Rembers they are alien devices and what we can do with them and what others can do may be diffrent things.
|
Esther
|
| sm0keyb wrote: |
Yep. Just suggesting that such rules as need to be written down reflect that. At the moment they don't. |
But the rules don't need to state how they work cos none symbioted PC's can't use them so all you need to know is what happens when you get hit by one not if and when they do or don't work.
| sm0keyb wrote: | | I'm all for players finding the important stuff IC, that's what playing is all about. I'm only suggesting that what is written down should be consistent and reflect what actually happens IC (or vice verse) |
How they are used currently does not conflict with the rules becouse all the rules tell you is what happens when you get hit by one. Which is right as that is all a player normally needs to know. Just like the rules for using the ancient healing device arn't written down and don't need to be as the limited number of people who can use it know how it works.
No-one but me can use one so why do you need the rules written down? As long as I and the crew know them then there isn't a problem.
There are plenty of pieces of tech that have effects and specific methods of using them they don't all get written into the rules and shouldn't be it would make the rules un-nesscaraly unwieldy. As long as those who use such tech know how they work there isn't a problem. The only thing the main body of players needs to know is any calls that are made.
IC people may want to know so they can combat them but that is an IC thing to be found out.
|
Fenric
|
Just to slap Harry - the episode was "The Nox"
|
Harry Font
|
so see it can be done
|
Esther
|
I stand corrected then. As i said I was being on the causous side as I was aware that a shield is uber and didn't want to take the piss.
|
comedyofhate
|
Oddly we had a conversation in regards to this yesterday. I reminded myself that the last time that I recall a shielded antagonist NPC was given a zat, the npc and three jafar kicked two teams around the site for about an hour. Not respawning jafar, just three jafar.
As for shields and how they work that is really an IC question, as a brief note and it will be mentioned later as a clarification (or whatever you want to call it) for everybody IC is that they stop high speed (bullets) even at very close range, Ie you cannot slip a gun underneath it. Still doesn't stop the slow nasty blade though, tatoo'ing your characters name on their buttocks is a reality for the nastier among you.. 
|
sm0keyb
|
| comedyofhate wrote: |
As for shields and how they work that is really an IC question, as a brief note and it will be mentioned later as a clarification (or whatever you want to call it) for everybody IC is that they stop high speed (bullets) even at very close range, Ie you cannot slip a gun underneath it. |
This does not make any sense at all. If you have a firearm point blank, surely the shield cannot stop the round. I've no problems with science we can't do yet, suspension of disbelief et al but I think that is pushing the shields capabilities too far.
|
Harry Font
|
cool it means that the g'ould suffer from the rodney problem in atlantis !!
if the feild activates when something moves to fast does this include sharp intakes of air, drinking, being thorwn something they need in an emergancy ?
thonk that if something gets within a distance say, 1ft then it works.
The effects of explosions on a sheild need to be thought out as well.
If an explosive goes offunder the sheild then they may not be hurt, oj. But the ground they were standing on aint there no more, so a stumble at least if not a knowckdown ?
|
Grace
|
**disclaimer: all my own personal views**
When I realised that 'slower than a speeding bullet' can pass through shields, I immediately started imagining them in my head like the shields from Dune, where they used slow-knife techniques to break through the personal shield.
I would imagine that if the shield can stop a bullet and a thrown grenade, then I do not think that the person inside the shield could be thrown an item unless they dropped the shield long enough to let it in.
A goa'uld who is thousands of years old might well have those kinds of reflexes and abilities. A relatively 'young' goa'uld (anything under 500 or so) should not be able to catch something thrown to them rather than at them.
Following the same logic thread, a thrown grenade should bounce off. A grenade gently handed through the shield and dropped should work.
A hastily swung sword should bounce off. A slow blade should go through.
A weapon discharged with the muzzle outside the shield should result in the bullet bouncing off. A weapon discharged with the muzzle carefully pushed through the shield should result in the shot hitting (the end of the barrel is inside the shield).
Realistically speaking the latter would be unlikely to occur unless someone got behind the goa'uld, they were powerless for some reason to just force push you away, or you're on the ground still alive and they have the stupidity to walk close enough for your gun barrel to be inside their shield.
|
Earthbinder
|
oh if we're going with dune style shields
SOMEONE GET ME A LASGUN i wanna see dave physrep a holtzmann effect.
Dom - Yes im know im a sad sad geek :tear:
|
Broz
|
Bad Dom, dirty Dom no atomics for you.
you can move a gun within the shield an shoot the user, hell I did it three tiimes in the same mission. It's hardly like it's an easy or safe course of action (but it is a heroic one.)
To say otherwise would be inconsistent in the least.
|
The Kibble
|
I was going to say I am sure we have shoved guns inside shields and shot people the problem is they only have to move slightly and the gun is outside the shield again.
I also agree about explosives on the grouns and how they work as a big enough explosion may not hurt the gou'ald as it is inside the shield but not only could the grown dissapear I see no reason why the gou'ald couldn't go flying form the force of the explosion.
|
sm0keyb
|
Oh dear! Now we're on dodgy ground (whoops, no pun intended)! If a Verity sized Goa'uld force pushes a Steve Bowles sized character (Staff Sgt Banks), should the Goa'uld go flying backwards?
|
Harry Font
|
are sheilds left or right handed ? 
|
Esther
|
| Harry Font wrote: | | are sheilds left or right handed ? |
some are left handed and some are right... I know cos I made them
|
sm0keyb
|
Not really a rules question but close enough. Does anybody know if shields deflect or annihilate missiles directed against them. I.e. do you finish up with a pile of bullets at your targets feet (or scattered around) or does the shield wipe them out of existence?
|
Harry Font
|
never seen things hit the floor.
would assume that as there is a flare when something hits that they evaporate. Ricochet rounds is just givingthe refs to much amoo as it where.. lmao
|
Fenric
|
People bounce off it and don't evaporate - as far as i'm aware it stops the kinetic energy so it's not actually a bounce and it's not disintegration.. it's literally the bullets stop and fall to the ground
|
Esther
|
This is about the point your head explodes becouse you are trying to fit TV sci-fi science to reality... 
|
kiwi
|
how about this then 
bullets and high speed objects that are bullet size shatter into micosopic bits, this explains the flash and not finding a pile of bullets on he floor.
as for a person hitting the shield they just cant get enough speed to shatter into bits plus i think if somebody did go fast enough they may turn into to squeshy think or a fine red and white mist.
thus i think i have covered al the nessessary points, what do others think
tv science explained. 
|
Harry Font
|
we could wait for the bbc2 horizon program ' The science of stargate !'
|
Earthbinder
|
im sure i saw something like that with Amanda Tapping presenting
But taking the thread back to its original point.
Does it matter what happens to the imaginary bullets we are firing at an imaginary shield?
|
Richard Tyler
|
| Harry Font wrote: | | we could wait for the bbc2 horizon program ' The science of stargate !' |
Yeah but the Science of Stargate program has interviews with Kevin Warwick .. it lost me at that point
|
sm0keyb
|
| Earthbinder wrote: |
Does it matter what happens to the imaginary bullets we are firing at an imaginary shield? |
If we want to find a way to knock an imaginary hole it it before the Goa'uld (imaginary, of course!) kicks our arses, yes!
(You're just not getting into this, are you? You're allowing RL to intrude )
|
The Kibble
|
looking over an old list of experimental kit I noticed there were shield breaker and thatcher shield breaker rounds. Which means there were atleast 2 different shield technologies out there which appear to work differently.
And also how shields work we may well need to test in play as I don't think we have as not been able to up to now other than in teh field and then generally not taken the time to look.
These things we can ask in game (but priming the refs so they can think about it will help)
|
|
|
