Non combat rules make my teeth itch

comedyofhate · Non combat rules make my teeth itch

So how complicated are the non combat rules

sm0keyb

I do not like the cards. you fight your way thro the boiling swamp teaming with Jaffa & gribblies to reach the bomb that's going to obliterate the universe.... then sit down for a game of cards!!! What's that all about?

Woody

Where as I have the totally oppostie view to Nigel in that I like the card system its a great tool for encouraging roleplaying. Without them there really isn't a good way I could play Lucky's areas of knowledge with any degree of realism in what I am saying.

Dangermouse

I'm with Nigel. Playing Stargate The Gathering card game takes away someof the fun. A bit of info, some role-playing and a healthy does of bullshit seems more fun.

It must be demoralisomg to make a bomb physrep with wires to snip, circuits to be shorted and problems to be overcome only to see a player drop his card deck on the table and solve it by dropping a bunch of purples.

I haven't thought what a better solution is

Richard Tyler

I dislike cards too. Roleplay and a modified bean bag is the way forward

Olivia Chase

To me, the cards are a great leveller. If you have two or more players, one may have more OC knowledge on the subject than the other, and that person will have a considerable advantage over the player that doesn't.

To me this is not fair and will discourage players from playing new characters because they may lack confidence to 'talk the talk'.

OK they are not perfect, but they have, in my eyes IMPROVED RP and helped the refs conduct a challenging technical scenario in a fair manner. The cards are neutral, keep the emphasis on the character's skills so the players can (and should) know some basics about what they are doing, but are not scuppored because they don't know what their character does.

You can still have fancy talk and RP, but use the cards as the basis for it, not instead of it.

Theo

I reffed what, three, four events, and i never got the hang of the cards.

I get why they're there and all that but they always felt a bit incongruous to me, like they harmed the game immersion somewhat.

Plus it also meant i always had to carry around multiple sets of the damned things!

I never could think of a better way to do what they did though...

Freeman

I'm with Doc Chase on the cards.
I would say more, but she said it so much better than I could.

JT

The cards are great. What ever else, the N/C skills need some form of mechanic to make them work. The mass hack/defuse exercise at the Xmas event was great, with the timer just to give it an extra edge.

I agree with Deb, the card system is a great leveller. It allows me to play on even ground with, say, Nigel. Now I don't have a fraction of Nigel's RL knowlegde, but the gap between our IC knowledge is much less, and the cards help emphasise that. The fact that some kind physrep is required makes gives balance to this concept.

It also makes for a time critical application of skills. Soft skills such as Comms/Hacking/EOD disciplines provide an uncertainty, and that uncertainty provides a tension.

I suppose the question is what would replace it with?

James Merryweather

I also think the card system is good, for all the reasons already stated.

Personally I think that it would greatly increase roleplay if players could provide a physrep for each card they use but I admit that that's a tough requirement and that I can't manage it yet even though I'm working on it.

Duncan Waterhouse

Everyone else has extolled their virtues.

I would argue we could consolidate a couple of the cards and allow them to have multiple functions (do you really need separate PDA cards for Comms, Hacking and Electrical Engineering?). Re-organising cards is one possibility to consider (say three cards max to bridge three disciplines, three cards to bridge two disciplines). Just an idea to reduce print/laminating overheads.

They're good... not LARP purist and that's a good thing. I'm working on the physreps for the props (in some cases glacially) and I strongly suggest that techie types get in a simple 'kit' for the skills (multitool, wire, electricians tape; a couple of screwdrivers etc).

sm0keyb

I do have phys reps for most of the stuff on the electrical engineering cards, the naquadah skill & Goa'uld crystals. We've previously had some great roleplay based on those physreps & I've always made it clear to everyone that they're all there for everyone to use. Last game the briefcase was left open on the "engineering" table. It had a 'scope, sound level meter, environment meter, 2 probes (camcorder mics) a detector, a couple of dvms & assorted leads to 'connect' the stuff to laptops. The box of crystals & the reader were also put out. The two dvms were used (one by me to do OOC checks on the gate) & one small piece of crystal. The case was subsequently closed & put under the bench by someone. It wasn't opened again for the rest of the weekend.

I dislike the cards intensely.

Which is not to say I belittle the efforts of the people who prepared them.

I don't know the underlying structure of how this was managed prior to the cards, 'cos I'm not a ref/organiser but I would have thought some sort of ref 'script' that required the real gizmos to be found/made would be more "alive" than playing snap!

I'm not saying the other ways of doing things are perfect either, one problem I encountered a few games ago had two possible solutions & was therefor insoluble!

Duncan Waterhouse

Minor kvetches about the card system:

1. I can't replay a card I have in my hand. No Mr. Logical Loop program I may not re-use you again this challenge. Unless I reprint you of course.

2. If you're skilled in more than one area you've got multiple decks; an ugly overhead leading to unsightly bulges in your kit.

If item 1 could be waived; this would paradoxically open up the door for more varied technical challenges. Although I'd like fewer cards per deck personally I can understand the desire to introduce variety.

Ideally I'd like a computer program which handles cards in the manner of Vassal or Hypercard so I can tote my cards anywhere and get that immersion Nigel is missing..

Hmmm. How best to do this and keep it free for the masses?

darren1

Just to add to those points about:
Having to carry around extra cards from skills you don't have to use for the what would X do? feat.

Klaus Von Bekk

i think this depends on the way the players approach it and the way the refs aproach it,

i have seen before, card problems where people play a 6 min card and go for a 'fag break' and a chat, to me this is deeply ruining the immersion as there is no effort being put into actually solving the problem, personally i always find something to do, if only play with a screwdriver and type on my pda (a gameboy) while a wire is connected. and natter technobabble.
this ensure i feel i have actually hacked a system, or fixed a problem.
the other way to look a t is the ref side where it is a problem against the players, if the refs play it as a card game then the players will lose immersion but if they combine the card game with equal requests of role play activities or instigating things for them to do. or even just penalising players when they dont role play what they are supposed to be doing, i think it makes the role play/card game mix balanced.

a good example of this was at event thirteen "unlucky for some" when we established a comms link to a defence satalite and hacked its computer systems. we then had to role play for an hour with its AI to find the right systems to activate. with cirtain card problems arising as we role played. this i thought was a fantastc problem/roleplay experiance Very Happy

will x

Olivia Chase

I see the cards as an enabler to the RP, but you cannot rely on them completely.

If you are playing a character with a skill that has cards, to turn up at an event with just the cards, but no phys reps/tools is a bit poor in my opinion. The cards enable people who do not have the OC skills to do what their character would do, the player then has to physically do it.

So, if I play someone with comms, I would expect to have a box or bag of physreps with me, gaffa tape, spare bits of gubbins, electronics tape, etc and use the cards to guide my actions when solving the problem. I the player have no idea what to get, so use the cards as guidance.

I also expect in this game for the refs to be open to a blinder of an idea from a player. If a player comes up with a way to solve the problem that has not been accounted for in the cards, but the ref feels that may work, then we should be allowed to go for it.

Chris L

I like the card system I think it makes it easier to play a hacker if you know nothing about hacking.

But, it does need to be mixed with roleplay, like when disarming the Dirty bomb. The card came up as encased in... we played the relevent card and then actually unscrewed the casing to get into th bomb.

This meant we werent waiting around like lemons for the time on the card to drop and it felt real-ish, immersing us into actually being Blaze and Thorne Jr disarming a bomb with the skills they have, and we might not.

Chris.