GUNS

comedyofhate · GUNS

broz said
'As the guns system, if not broken (and I'm not in a position to make such a broad statment) certainly has issues and ones that are prone to lead to confusion, unintentional cheating and intentional attempts to fall through the cracks. A degree of ref direction and battle boarding, I feel, can address this to a strong degree. '

Anyone want to flesh this out? Do not even begin to mention 7.62mm or 5.56mm in this topic.

Fenric

My 2p worth :

No Battleboarding

Woody

I think the proposal you posted pre event is worth pursuing to be honest.

The other thing I would say is one of those real life vs game issues.

At the end of the day IC we don't own the guns we are issued them. So its not a strech to assume that no matter what physrep we use then we are all going to be issued with similar weapons calibre etc.

So saying we have one sort of rounds for pistol and SMG and one for rifles and machine guns makes sense.

Not sure if Broz meant guns or gun combat though.

On gun combat two of the best firefights I have been in had a dedicated battle ref who's sole purpose was to make sure people knew who was getting hit and from where. It worked very well indeed, also as they were on a radio chanel with snipers they could relay those calls without the sniper giving away their position by shouting. I think Tony you were the ref for one of them at Candlestone

Fenric

I agree with Woody - it's battleboarding without battleboarding

MajorMasters

Doc Benton

if we even go in to the 7.62 5.56 303 ect ect it would kill the game and make combat far to complex

how ever perhaps over the 5.56 762 stuff we sould get backt o special (expermentay) ammo (that works)

that way we can get pep making them in game work out what that will /can do and then (down the line make them standard just an ider for the last bit there)

over all if we even start with weapon callabal, rates of fire, damage ect ect

i meen the standed sinper round is 7.62 how ever the ak's all of them have 3 difrent size 7.62 but there long med and short shold that do the same damage ??? lets face it that would be a nigt mare and if we do go donw thst line then we will end up with a hole truck of ammo just for the fis-reps!!!

i think if we went for the spc / exp ammo but restrict the wepon size ic a pistold could not fire a x round but a sniper could ?

just my thorts some expasion would be good grate in fact but tomuch and it would kill combat .

Broz

The battle boarding comment came specifically from something Alex said during the big tunnel mission on the Saturday. Partly motivated by trying to tally the amount of damage that the group had suffered and also to make sure people had spent feats appropriately (especially Jammy Bastard.)

I was less thinking the "time out and tell the refs how fucked you are" bit and more along the lines of active reminders to the players to be aware of keeping up with their book keeping.

It has to be pointed out a degree of the more classic battle boarding can (and has) been done during the OOC march between the gates at the end of a mission.

I don't necessarily believe that the best fights have been those that were specifically battle reffed (for me the circumstances have been a lot more zen that anyone thing I could put my finger on.)

However the battle reffing that has taken place has helped a good number of large battles that could have been chaotic and utterly shit be instead really enjoyable.

In large engagements, to me it really is essential to get past some of the utter confusion that can reign. That said, players should be briefed at the start of the event that such battle reffing will take place and to ensure there is no perception of suggested cheating.

The sniper channel, when it is feasible is just awesome. Though for it to be done properly it really should be restricted to the dedicated sneaky-beaky missions.

Though on a side note I did like the way the counter sniper use of grenade launchers was played, it was rather fun to watch while you guys completely ignored me lying in the bushes.

Just to address Woody, I did mean just guns combat. Personally I'm happy with guns as they stand. I am for individual rules when we get to the really big shit like rail guns, miniguns, .50 BMGS, anti materiel rifles and the like but in my world, discussions on small arms calibres should be avoided like the plague.

Such a system was (way back when) used in SINergy and it veered between being needlessly finicky to being utterly irrelevant. In a larp it strikes me as being unnecessary in the extreme, especially as such points of detail are really going to be lost on all but a few of us. While Calvin and Modeski may debate the resurgence of 7.62 for gate ops (more hitting power and with the weight issue negated by short periods of gate travel) it ought to stay as a point for role-play and personal aesthetics for choice in phys reps and not a muddying factor in a rules set that needs to remain appropriately streamlined.

sm0keyb

Agree totally with Broz here. If we start getting finicky about exact calibres & so on in the rules it'll be chaos. It's a nice argument to role play but for example, if 7.62 becomes a support weapon calibre in a machine gun, what happens to sniper rifles, 'cos they're also 7.62 but large weapons not support!

No, keep calibre issues to role playing. Keep the gun rules simple, as they are. I quite like the idea of heavy pistols & I'd like to see something to reflect the difficulty of using them except at short range & in very expert hands but there's not much else I'd like to see changed about the gun rules.

It always was an oddity that everybody got small weapons free even though they are the most difficult to use effectively. That's why most second line & support troop now use PDWs, pistols have almost disappeared from the RL military

Meyrick

Harry Font

battleboarding

as a player/monster at the last event there was some obvious cheating going on.

now weather that was conciouse or just caught up in the way things went i dont know, however the result is the same. those players that play their hits, damage , ammo count.. get penalised for playing their characters and tghe others justr dont die, get wounded or run out of ammo

This series i think i did more combat missions than probably any other character and it was notisable that that at times breaks need to be taken so that people can check on what they use and what they have left.

I had to check my character card twice in one combat to work out a: if i was standing, b: i could call the hits i wnated to.

Handing in ammo was rather fiun as well. Some people fired more than me and handed in less mags...lol

Well people get from the game what they want, however if some one is cheating then a quiet word is needed in no unsertan terms and if it continues then the fate of the gods rests on them and they should be bitch slapped big styleie

Colour Sargent Rob Knight

I'm in definate agreement that the gun rules should stay the same, particualy the calls but different calls for the smg, rifle and carbine might well be a good idea. However keep them as medium weapons even if the damage is slightly different.