| Archive for Stargate LRP (SEF) Official Forum for Stargate LRP (SEF) |
| Tempest |
Gun phys reps?Can anyone recommend somewhere for good looking gun phys reps? specifically looking for a new pistol and assault rifle (for use with medium weapons skill)Any suggestions? |
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| sm0keyb |
Haven't bought from them myself yet, so I don't know what they're like but theses guys http://www.airsoftscotland.com/acatalog/2-Tone_Guns_.html offer two tone guns that get round the VCR legislation, some at quite competitive prices. | ||||
| Woody |
Paul what sort of style of phys rep are you after I may have something spare in the loft will talk at next FnH moment | ||||
| Tempest |
Will just be wanting a suitable machine gun/assault rifle, not decided on any particular model. | ||||
| darren1 |
I've bought from these guys. Quite good service. It was Steve (Staff Sergeant Banks) who told me about them. |
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| JT |
Are two-tone/translucent weapons acceptable as physreps? Would may mine and the other non-airsofter's lives simpler if they were.
T. |
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| Colour Sargent Rob Knight |
My new M-16 was a 2 tone weapon with a couple off coats of black paint, not complete covereage but dose the job, someone also recomended masionary paint which I will try when I next return home from uni. | ||||
| darren1 |
I've used black undercoat spray from Games Workshop. Gives a nice matt finish and the paint stays put. It doesn't flake off at all. Those of you who seen my nerf gun I was using as a grenade launcher last event will know what I mean. | ||||
| sm0keyb |
Be aware that spraying up a nerf gun ( i.e. a non RIF under the VCA definition) is OK but respraying a two tone current weapons (like an M16) turns it back into a RIF & is therefore illegal! | ||||
| dante73 |
Really? My understanding of the law is that it is illegal to sell realistic replicas, but their are no offences of ownership. Apart from anything else it would have to be proven that you purchased and sprayed the gun after October 1st 2007.
For example, it is legal to purchase all of the parts and build your own realistic phys rep even without UKARA membership. |
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| sm0keyb |
I'm surprised, though I couldn't be sure without looking at the wording again. I'm pretty sure it says something like 'sell or convert or modify'. The solution for a long gun is to wrap it in camo scrim anyway. Several of our people have already done it & it looks quite characterful. | ||||
| dante73 |
Yeah, it looks good on sniper rifles.
You may be right about the wording, it underwent some changes during its passage into law. Even if it is the case, I think unless you go waving your gun around in a public place you are going to be ok. Simply because the burden of proof would be on the police to prove that the gun was modified after the law came into force. |
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| sm0keyb |
The words are "manufacture, import, or sell'. Looking at one or two UKARA members websites they seem to have taken the view that respraying is 'manufacturing' a RIF from a non realistic imitation. It may well be arse covering.
I found this on the Airsoft Scotland website: "Please note: Under Section 36 of the V.C.R. Act it is a criminal offence to alter the appearance of an imitation firearm to make it into a realistic imitation firearm. Our interpretation of this Act is that even painting one of these guns would contravene the Act. Please DO NOT order Krylon paint with one of these guns, it will be cancelled off your order if you do. If we suspect that one of these Two-Tone guns is being purchased for misuse in any way, we will cancel off your order and possibly forward your details to the Police." |
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| Dangermouse |
Excerpts from the VCRA 2006
36 Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms (1) A person is guilty of an offence if— (a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm; (b) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm; (c) he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or (d) he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain. 38 Meaning of “realistic imitation firearm” (1) In sections 36 and 37 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which— (a) has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm; and (b) is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique. (3) In determining for the purposes of this section whether an imitation firearm is distinguishable from a real firearm— (a) the matters that must be taken into account include any differences between the size, shape and principal colour of the imitation firearm and the size, shape and colour in which the real firearm is manufactured; and (b) the imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or principal colour is unrealistic for a real firearm. 39 Specification for imitation firearms (2) A person is guilty of an offence if— (a) he manufactures an imitation firearm which does not conform to the specifications required of it by regulations under this section; (b) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it ceases to conform to the specifications so required of it; So basically if you buy an imitation firearm which is classified as an imitation because its principle colour is one defined in the 2007 Regulations (bright red, bright blue etc) and you alter the principle colour so it is not on the list you are committing an offence. Proof is another matter but it won`t stop the police shooting you. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060038_en.pdf http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/pdf/uksi_20072606_en.pdf |
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| Olivia Chase |
Well for the purposes of the game I would suggest a compromise. The phys reps will not be seen by Joe Public so the police will not be called. Depending on the gun, then using cammo scrim is temporary, and you can return the phys rep back to it's brightly coloured glory when time out is called.
Not entirely legal maybe, but a possible working compromise. |
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| JT |
I think that's a good compromise. I have a couple of RIF's from before the law changed, so those are OK. I'm not an airsofter, and don't plan to be one on anything more than a highly casual basis. Therefore I will not have the opportunity to by further realistic physreps. I could be happy with the 'wrap-it' solution.
T. |
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| Freeman |
The downside occurs when the police do attend site (as has happened in the past at Candlestone I believe). | ||||
| Richard Heaton |
Sorry Debs, that's still classed as illegal in this context. |
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| JT |
Well, I have no objection to unadorned twotone or translucent stuff. I'm just wondering whether to invest in some stuff for playing SGLRP, as I now have a local supplier. | ||||
| darren1 |
What about some of the custam made weopons such as the miniguns and rocketlaunchers (or even grenades) or other weapons people have made? The act does mention:-
" 36 Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms (1) A person is guilty of an offence if— (a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm; " |
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| Fenric |
I think that when you look at the LAWs and Grenades - they are good for LRP purposes - I love Simon Hill's LAWs for example - but I don't think they would ever count as "Realistic" in that context of legal parlance. | ||||
| darren1 |
...and the m60? | ||||
| sm0keyb |
The act says that a realistic imitation firearm is one that cannot easily be distinguished from a modern firearm, that is one of a design from 1870 onwards (principal source-Wolf Armouries). "Easily" means from a distance, in variable light, not close enough to see the end of the barrel is blocked, or with it in your hand so you can see it can't be loaded.
An imitation firearm is not realistic if it too small to be realistic (dimensions are given) or principally finished in one of a range of bright colours. Thus more or less any "modern" generic handgun, rifle, assault rifle or light machine gun finished in black or a metallic finish would probably be classed as a RIF. It doesn't have to be recognisable as a specific weapon as far as I can tell. In bright green, orange et al you're OK. Rocket Launchers, grenades etc are outside the scope of the bill as are muzzle loaders, cap & ball weapons etc. This still gives some sillies 'cos I don't think most people could distinguish an 1866 Winchester from an 1873! One is a RIF, the other isn't! Sprayed up nerf guns don't qualify as RIFs 'cos even sprayed they don't look like any real gun. |
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| sm0keyb |
Is probably a RIF but bought before the act came into force. Remember, the act refers to the manufacture, import, or sale, not possession. |
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| Broz |
Or just become a UKARA member which gives a specific defense.
Having reread the notes on the airsoft community wesite I notice that there is no specific defense for airsoft, it simply comes under the defense for reenactment requiring some kind of proof of membership (a card for instance) and the group in question possessing third party liability insurance. |
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| Broz |
And persuivant to that I give you
http://www.opsgear.com/ProductDet...2DSHROUD%2DM107%2DA5&CartID=1 The main parts for a airsoft or larp M107 for one hundrd and fifty quid. Unless of course you have a lot of lego... http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/58112 |
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| JT |
Everything I've read says that UKARA membership requires participation in Airsoft. This is something I have neither time, money or interest to do. Could the club find out if its membership will satisfy the cops to the point where it is OK for us to carry this stuff at SGLRP events? |
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| Dangermouse |
The re-enactment get out refers to historical re-enactment of events in the past. I doubt SG will count. | ||||
| sm0keyb |
This is important for grenades, rocket launchers, sprayed up nerf guns HMGs, mortars & so forth. The VCR bill also says nothing about use. There is plenty of other legislation that makes it an offence to have weapons in a public place, or even just able to be seen in the back of your car. Any of the above could easily get you a visit from the armed response unit if you're careless on the way to or from a game. There is a VCR defence under the re enactment heading via insurance & membership of SAGBNI. This doesn't have the same playing requirements as UKARA membership. It's not cheap but not as expensive as buying a competitive airsoft gun. I've spoken to Mike Wells of the Association & he believes that their insurance would cover our game. http://www.sportsmansassociation.co.uk/ Finally.... A Lego RIF??? 
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| Freeman |
There's nothing to say that you can't OWN a RIF without UKARA membership, you just can't BUY one. So long as your RIFs came into your possession PRE-VCR bill you're fine. The same would apply any scratchbuilt RIFs. |
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| JT |
Is scratchbuilt different from manufacture as specified in the act? | ||||
| sm0keyb |
No. If you construct or convert or even paint up anything to look like a realistic gun you commit an offence under the act. This shouldn't be a problem at least in the short term if you want a weapon for a game. Most of us saw the act coming & have a goodly supply of spare weapons. Whilst we are still prevented by the Act from selling them legally, I don't think there is anything to stop us allowing each other to use spare weapons during a game. |
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| darren1 |
All this is why Jason Andrews got himself a zat and a (nerf) grenade launcher. It means his player doesn't have to worry too much about buying, making a realistic imitation firearm.
Lets face it any of us could walk around a busy city carring a zat and most people wouild even blink. |
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| Dangermouse |
Why don`t we take the guns and como gear away and give everybody phasers and red shirts.
I`ll get my coat..... |
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| Earthbinder |
i like that idea si.
tell you what while we're at it lets put a proposition to change the name from gate to hike as we do more walking than gate travel 
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| sm0keyb |
Another thread derailed! 
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| gliderrider |
Do you know where he got it from? |
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| Freeman |
The NERF GL was a NERF MAverick. you can pick em up for around £8 from places like Argos, toysrus, ebay... | ||||
| sm0keyb |
The other one that Keir was using, that looked like a 40K bolter was a Nerf N strike recon CS6, without the stock or barrel extension. The stock is very thin plastic rod which wouldn't last five minutes in a scrap. If I can find a way of reinforcing it, I will refit it. They're available on Ebay, don't know 'bout other toy stores. | ||||
| darren1 |
Yep, a quick trip to Argos. Be careful though they had 2 different nerf guns under the one catalogue number. It shows the correct gun in the catalogue (the one with thee large rotating wheel) but first time around I got a much smaller hand weapon. I had to send the Argos staff back in amongst the shelves for another look.
I'm not too thrilled with my zat gun. It's made from foam latex (larp safe) but it wasn't isoflexed so the latex is peeling. I got it made here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ian.bland1/LARP-INDEX_files/Page3165.htm Mine is slightly different to the one shown in the pictures. The top part (of mine) looks a little strange as has been commented by several people at the last event. It think mine was based on the early ones from the TV series. There is a very nice resin unpainted kit but it can be expensive and hard to get. It's even harder to get a ready painted one. One of our Number, Derek (Dr Benton) made a few wooden zats a while ago from which you could fold or open. I believe he was planning a new design for future times (nudge nudge Derek 
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| gliderrider |
@ sm0keyb, freeman & darren1= Thanks for the info on the NERF launchers, But I allready have enough replicas to equip a small army, as Im a bonafide Re-enactor & Airsofter. Besides, I have a sneaky suspicion that if any more replicas turn up in the house then I'll be strung up by my short and curlies. What makes it more difficult to hide is the fact that she is also interested in re-enacting (Vietnam to be precise)so knows exactly WHAT I do & dont have(Hopefully she wont be getting involved in this as she is more of a trekky).
I was refering more to the ZAT, but a couple of minetes on google last night revealed a few links for resin props. http://www.frontiermodels.co.uk/Stargate-SG1-ZAT-Gun-p-18026.html http://www.frontiermodels.co.uk/S...-1-1-Resin-Model-Kit-p-16970.html http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stargate-SG...260927566&_trkparms=72%3A1301 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stargate-SG...76780&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stargate-SG...01790&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177 BTW, has anyone considered getting round the VCRA by getting a friend that IS able to claim a deffence or exemtion to buy a RIF for you, and just "Borrow" it for events?. It is something that I have done for a couple of friends that are waiting to become fully fledged airsofters under the defination of the VCRA (It also gives me an excuse for more toys). |
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| sm0keyb |
There seam to be plenty of resin cast ZAT replicas about, some of us have bought the Wilco models version, via Ebay. They're all very similar. Par price is around 35 quid. BTW a spare canteen holder makes a passable ZAT holster. | ||||
| gliderrider |
Interesting, I hadent thought of that. But know you mention it, it seems logical it would. Id imagine that the entrenching tool holder would be good as well, all be it with minor modification. | ||||
| gliderrider |
[quote="sm0keyb"] BTW a spare canteen holder makes a passable ZAT holster do you meen the US canteen holder? | ||||
| sm0keyb |
[quote="gliderrider"]
Not 100% sure, I just know the ZAT fits. I'll post a link to a piccie. Wilco models Ebay shop is at http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/w...0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ |
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| gliderrider |
Thanks for that, but Ill look at it again when I have more pennies. | ||||