The Kibble
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Feats hot or not?so what feats are good as they are and which one's do you think need changing.
If we get enough which need discussion we can then start a thread on each one.
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comedyofhate
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Personal sens of purpose - I would give it a ten minute delay between uses.
Critical hit - A big reminder that large weapons cannot use it.
Disarm - i would make that a feat that only forces an opponent to drop their weapon and have a melee version of it also.
Experimental kit - We need more experimental kit.
Flash of Insight - I would allow ref activation if players are floundering, and the ref thinks they can give them decent hints.
Last Desperate Act - An awful, awful feat, let it die imo.
Botch Job and Mcgyver - I would add "within reason" to them.
Solve - Errm it would be better to give a card bases system for the maths skills rather than this feat which only means that the skill is essentially redundant.
Brainstrom / Think Tank are there any added benefits to have these over flash of insight? The wording unless I am missing something seems to be relative to flash of insight. It would be better to have the description of flash insight to incorporate brain storm, and think being a permanent feat that allows multiple skill from different areas.
the ambidexterity skills should be expanded for a scene and not just for an actions, it's how I allow players to use it anyway.
We have a job to do - I would knock it up to ten minute break between you being able to be effected by this skill.
Generally if you can poke holes in these ideas it would be good. 
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The Kibble
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| comedyofhate wrote: | | Personal sens of purpose - I would give it a ten minute delay between uses. |
I must admit i thought it did so at the weekend use We have a job to do/psp/we have a job to do over the long fight on Friday.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Experimental kit - We need more experimental kit. |
hmm I think the background feats need looking at and tweaking. I am not convinved experimental kit works, I am not sure how mnay people have it and often IC it is more logical to give it to other people to check.
but if you have 5 people with it you effectievly need 5 special things each event. Don't get me wrong I like experimental kit but I think it possibly should be taken out of being a feat and give military some different specalist feats.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Flash of Insight - I would allow ref activation if players are floundering, and the ref thinks they can give them decent hints. |
Doesn't this sort of happen already. Ref's go does anyone have a flash of insight?
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Last Desperate Act - An awful, awful feat, let it die imo. |
I think it can work for a pc heroic last stand but then is potentially game breaking (e.g at the weekend last desperate act to get to the control room on the mothership a couple of people had done that then they may have walked all their way to the control room clearing it for the rest and then dying)
In shards there used to be a feat called this fight is over which dropped someone out of a feat which basically allowed you to keep going. Basically it would be less grim if there was a counter feat to it.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Botch Job and Mcgyver - I would add "within reason" to them. |
Agreed for game breaking reasons.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Solve - Errm it would be better to give a card bases system for the maths skills rather than this feat which only means that the skill is essentially redundant. |
Not sure about the card system but just drop pure maths people who have a maths/computing skill assume they have a reasonable level of maths.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | Brainstrom / Think Tank are there any added benefits to have these over flash of insight? The wording unless I am missing something seems to be relative to flash of insight. It would be better to have the description of flash insight to incorporate brain storm, and think being a permanent feat that allows multiple skill from different areas. |
I have wondered this myself. Only benefit I can see is I brainstrom with 4 people and can blow my brainstrom to give one of them a flash of insight as they don't have the feat.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | the ambidexterity skills should be expanded for a scene and not just for an actions, it's how I allow players to use it anyway. |
yes that is what I had been lead to believe is how it worked.
| comedyofhate wrote: | | We have a job to do - I would knock it up to ten minute break between you being able to be effected by this skill. |
fair enough though how does this work if I only do 3 or 6 vitality not the full 9?
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Esther
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Talk down and think about it.Talk down and think about it.
Two very similar feats one needs Phycology one doesn't.. the none pychology one has a time limit the Pychology one doens't .
Originally they both lead to a perm version and were pre reqs for others, now only the none pychology one does which makes me wander what's the point in both.
I never got a good answer or indeed any answer on why one was dropped and the other wasn't.
In many ways I'd prefer the one leading to other feats to be the specalisted one rather than the one anyone can get.. I like specalist feats and it make sense you need training to do higher level stuff.
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Esther
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Mental Reserves (and leading off it strength of will and Torture resist)
"This feat may be used three times. It allows the character to halve the effectiveness of the ribbon device’s life drain effect."
Only use able against ribbon devices.. as a ribbon device magnet I can attest to how hard it is to go through the requiset number of cards to get either the trade ups.. Most if not everyone with strength of will has it off the origial rules which was a trade up of single minded and from when it was have not use to trade up.
Now I don't think it is nessecaraly wrong that some trade ups are hard to get but there is hard and there is have to be captured and held for extended periods of time by a Gou'ald before you have a realistic change of getting it.
I think mental reserves is too narrow in what it can be used for. I think it would be better as a mini Torture resist ie it does work against a ribbon device but it would also be useable to resist very short term other extremely painful and/or unpleasent things.. either that or the trade ups need looking at.. or indeed both.
While I am largely responsible for the rules changing from tradeups been got once you buy enough feats to when you use enough and think in general that is a better way as it encorrages feat useage rather than hording it has made some trade ups overly hard to get.
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Olivia Chase
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| Keser/Keresh wrote: | Mental Reserves (and leading off it strength of will and Torture resist)
"This feat may be used three times. It allows the character to halve the effectiveness of the ribbon device’s life drain effect."
I think mental reserves is too narrow in what it can be used for. I think it would be better as a mini Torture resist ie it does work against a ribbon device but it would also be useable to resist very short term other extremely painful and/or unpleasent things.. either that or the trade ups need looking at.. or indeed both. |
It is way to narrow in my opinion, and if you don't come across a ribbon device how can you get to Torture resist, which is a much more likely prospect? How about putting them the other way round?
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Esther
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| Olivia Chase wrote: |
It is way to narrow in my opinion, and if you don't come across a ribbon device how can you get to Torture resist, which is a much more likely prospect? How about putting them the other way round? |
We certinaly have far more characters with backgrounds which would justify being able to resist Torture than who have encountered ribbon devices thought you can argue the ribbon device resistance is natural inner strength.
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Theo
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Maybe 'torture resistance' should become 'pain resistance', dropping its ribboning pre-requisite (though keeping the benefit for) and widening its benefit a little...making you able to do a little more than normal at negative body say.
Just a thought, cos otherwise i don't see too much benefit coming from it.
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comedyofhate
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Theo and Ester make good points, thinking back the psychology and to be honest the talky feats need simplifying and probably some of them need merging.
The torture stuff needs looking at.
I would also add an addendum to my previous list, the talky feats need to be merged and simplified. Because, very few people tend to take em and they all seem to do very similar things IMO.
This is not getting at talky feats, it just that nobody tends to take em.
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The Kibble
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I have them just forget to use them and not been many circumstances for me to use them (mainly as i am not a talky character as in not a negotiator)
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Esther
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| comedyofhate wrote: |
I would also add an addendum to my previous list, the talky feats need to be merged and simplified. Because, very few people tend to take em and they all seem to do very similar things IMO.
This is not getting at talky feats, it just that nobody tends to take em. |
There are only two base talky feats,. the reason the higher ones arn't used much is they arn't easy to get to.. It''s a lot easier to blow a bunch of criticals to get upgrades than it is to blow talky feats.
I have a bunch of talky feats of both types, both temp and perm verisons and one of the higher level group effect ones and can list several other characters who do.
They have been slimmed down once I just think it wasn't nessecaraly the right way. I think it is more jusfied for the trade ups to need pychology than not. At the moment listen to me which is the one anyone can get is the one the trade ups come off.
I'd been more tempted to see if we can come up with a way to have two different effects, once for pychology and one for everyone as I agree they are teo similar at the moment. Personally I don't want to slim down the number of none combat feats but there is also not much point having duplicates.
From a personal point of view I often don't use the feat when I could becouse I roleplay the scene through and am able to do the convincing for real.. saying I'm using a feat just breaks the mood.. BUT I'm good at that arn't I JD?? The feats are useful when you aren't so good OR in a situation where realsitically you couldn't do for real so need to be a little supernatural about it like stopping someone sacrificing someone else on the alter for a slong as you can keep talking.
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Harry Font
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it should be kept narrow. you either buy it and never use it or go through it like a dose of salts. it's a hero thing. if you get caught you can use it to become a hero, if you dont have it then writhe like a epeleptic break dancer fool.
have blown it twice. (thats six uses.. it's well wort it)
Having narrow field feats means that not every one has one..
that makes them more interesting to use.
The problem we have is that people go for the snaky ones and leve the less broad spectrum ones alone. good. that the way it should be.
as far as i know only two people have bullet catcher, each of them has been on body guard missions and is picked for them due to the fcat that they have that feat.. same with the rersist ribbon device, if you go undercover against the goolies you need it.. if u aint got it dont expect to go.
people need to specialise their skills and abilities, so narrow fielf fests are worth having..
makes playing more fun and makes you think more how to use them.
as for resist torture, well we are getting into a dodgy field. ity will be intresting to see how someone uses a torture/interigation skill vs someone without it. will happily put harry up against a qualified intrigator to see who gets most out of the victim.. err prisoner 
rembers there needs to be a role-play element in this .. not a stats/feats driven system.
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Fenric
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| Harry Font wrote: | as for resist torture, well we are getting into a dodgy field. ity will be intresting to see how someone uses a torture/interigation skill vs someone without it. will happily put harry up against a qualified intrigator to see who gets most out of the victim.. err prisoner
rembers there needs to be a role-play element in this .. not a stats/feats driven system. |
Also though on this - I would actually expect Harry to be hard to interrogate due to what I know has happened to him, so him having the feat makes sense from a roleplay perspective even if he never uses it.
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Esther
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| Fenric wrote: | | Harry Font wrote: |
rembers there needs to be a role-play element in this .. not a stats/feats driven system. |
Also though on this - I would actually expect Harry to be hard to interrogate due to what I know has happened to him, so him having the feat makes sense from a roleplay perspective even if he never uses it. |
I agree generally, but while the system is mainly Roleplay it is a mite unfair not to get a feat becouse you know you can roleplay it out. i agree it would make sense for Harry to have an resist torcher faet.. but even he shouldn't be unbreakeable given the right situation.
As I said in a previous post I often don't end up using the Pychology feat becouse I don't need to BUT i have it and I wouldn't play that sort of character without it. I would feel i was cheating rather to use my OOC abilities without backing them by the approprate IC skills.
For instance Esther is quite knowledgable about most of the techy skills but I play dumb as Keser beocuse it isn't my area of expertise i dont' think something like resisting an interigation should be any different.
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Harry Font
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feats/abiolity/skills are there to allow characters to do things they physically or mentaly cnat actually do in relaity.
the aim should be to facilitate role-play
yes harry would break.. all people would without exception.. it's jsut a matter of time..
any person who is captured has to try a resist for only 48 hours. any plans made can be changed within that time.
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The Kibble
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| Harry Font wrote: | | feats/abiolity/skills are there to allow characters to do things they physically or mentaly cnat actually do in relaity. |
I disagree with this otherwise why do we have skills like melee and unarmed? there are people who can do both of these but in game you need the skill to do it.
If there are skills to represent things and if you are playing a character to do that then you should try and get the skills to represent that.
With Regards resist torture it does seem like you ought to be able to be able to resist torture with out having to be tortured by a Gou'ald hand device.
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