Esther
|
Doctor/ Paramedic etc.OK this is slightly less relivant than I thought it was cos something in the earlier rules has been dropped .. in the seocnd addition you had to go through an adittional nurse praticioner stage to go from Paramedic to doc in game.. but checking the thrid edition that was dropped.
That said paramedic takes you 2 picks
Doc takes 3 (but you get a biology skill or psychology free)
So if you were going to take a biology skill or psychology you might as well take doctor even if you call yourself a paramedic.. if you want a wider range then the extra pick is of course useful.
Not as broken as I thought it was so probably can ignore me. I am in two minds about it taking a full 2 years of downtime to train from one to another.. while I agree doctor training is very long widned and all it still seems a very long time in a game .. it doens't say if you get the extra free skill fi done that way which would mitigate the time. i knwo at least one person at the begining of the game got stung by that... more something for people writting new characters to be aware of than anything else perhaps.
Currently we seem to have all the Docs have specalised the same way (Physiology) apart from Chase. Which is a bit of a shame a genetics specalist or even a medical/psychology cross would have been nice out of the bunch. Ecology/medical would have been slightly wierd and needed an un-usual back story to work but do-able by the rules.
|
Richard Tyler
|
If you train to Doctor during downtime, you shouldn't need any freebie skills as you already have (hopefully) a fully skilled character to start with.
|
Grace
|
Having just built a Doctor character from scratch, my very first comment is that the rules need a desperate revamp. It took me ages to figure out what I could have and couldn't and even then wasn't a hundred percent sure I'd gotten it right. Until I showed up at the event and Dom very kindly shared his crib sheets, I wasn't too sure about what I could and couldn't do; I didn't want to take anything more complex than biology in case I simply couldn't hack the roleplay aspect of it.
It also didn't make it very clear that if you took a doctor-three-levels-of-medicine and a different speciality like psychology whether you could still medically treat people as well as psycho-analyse them.
In real life of course we all know that as soon as highly trained doctors specialise into something they very rarely do anything general after that because their training focuses them so much on their speciality that they don't have time to stay up to date with the intricacies of putting other bits of the body back together.
That aside I think that offering a paramedic-two-levels-of-doctoring is still worthwhile as long as actually being a paramedic gives you the skills to actually be medically of use. As I commented in another thread, it lets you be a semi-medical person with a free slot to spend on something else.
I don't think there needs to be more than the three levels of doctoring. I would suggest that the first aider level also include titles such as nurse, because quite honestly although nurses are highly trained to take care of people unless they go into a speciality they are often not too involved with things like diagnosis and active treatment. That way if folks want to play a character with a nursing background for flavour rather than in play effect, they need only spend one level of medicine on it.
|
Esther
|
Agreed the rules are very unclear in the current verision. how it worked was more spelt out in the original if I rememebr rightly.
Dr Chase has Pathology and still does the real doctoring stuff. Reality and roleplay character don't really relate cos roleplay characters are those heros who do more than your normal bod.. Hey by the rules most of us have 3 or 4 PHD level skills sometimes in different fields so a doc with psychology specalist still being able to treat people is just as reasonable as someone being an expert in engineering, astro physics and ancient egyptian to pick a random but possible mix.
|
Earthbinder
|
Doctor:Psycholgy - strikes me as the guy/gal whos really good with the bedside manner, cna get you up and about and feeling better even if your body just wants to let it lie.
Doctor:Genetics - would unfortunatly be most modern doctors these days as genetic testing is more then ever the norm for diagnosis (okay most diagnosis still goes through the basic physical:bloods:genetic route but almost all treatment is decided upon by the results of genetic assays) excpeting Trauma cases like fractures and GSW's
Doctor:Ecology - is the Brazillian/African research doctor whos working for the big P companies looking into new drug production and medical testing
Doctor:Anatomy&Physiology - is the surgeon, be it a cardio, neuro or other, and also the trauma specalist (that being the majority of damge inflicted by weapons it seems mostl likely that UKGC would recruit more of this type of Dr into its ranks)
Doctor:Pathology - is the coroner, medical examiner and all round investigative doctor
hope this helps a bit?
|
Esther
|
Nice list. might suggest adding that to the rules to help anyone stating new docs as it's a bit too light on the subject at the moment.
|
Olivia Chase
|
The list above is alot clearer.
Dr Chase is an unusual example of rules going against reality, but as she was the only 'surgeon' on one event, no one was complaining!
The info does need expanding a bit, but I would still ensure that all 'doctors' are able to do surgery, regardless of specialism, to ensure the player base are kept up and about. I would suggest that the anat/phys tupe Doctor gets bonuses though.
Nice bit of IC dialogue from the last event on this very subject.
Kincaid: But Chase, what about your Hippacratic oath?
Chase: Brigadier, I'm a forensic pathologist.....
Calvin: Yes Brigadier, your MO has been working backwards.
|
Earthbinder
|
Hippocratic oatha lot of people have mentioned this both in and out of character
here is the original
| hippocrates (father of medicine) wrote: |
I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath.
To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.
Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot. |
brining up the following interesting modern problems:
# To teach medicine to the sons of my teacher. In the past, medical schools would give preferential consideration to the children of physicians. Today this would constitute discrimination and is therefore no longer official policy. Although legacy preferences still exist in some schools.
# Not to teach medicine to other people. If taken literally, a physician who attempts to educate or make aware of treatment options, even informally, to anyone not enrolled in medical school would lose his or her license.
# To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them. This beneficial intention is the purpose of the physician. However, this item is still invoked in the modern discussions of euthanasia.
# Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest. Physician organizations in the U.S. and most other countries have strongly denounced physician participation in legal executions, however, in a small number of nations, most notably the Netherlands,a doctor can preform a legal execution, by both his and the patient's consent.
# Never to attempt to induce an abortion. This item is still invoked in the modern discussions of abortion.
# To avoid violating the morals of my community. Many licensing agencies will revoke a physician's license for offending the morals of the community ("moral turpitude").
# To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better. The "stones" referred to are kidney stones or bladder stones, removal of which was judged too difficult for physicians, and therefore was left for surgeons (specialists). The value of specialization was recognized in that time. The range of knowledge and skills needed for the range of human problems has always made it impossible for any single physician to maintain expertise in all areas. This also highlights the different historical origins of the surgeon and the physician.
# To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority. There may be other conflicting 'good purposes,' such as community welfare, conserving economic resources, supporting the criminal justice system, or simply making money for the physician or his employer that provide recurring challenges to physicians.
# To avoid sexual relationships or other inappropriate entanglements with patients and families. The value of avoiding conflicts of interest isn't often questioned.
Modern practice iirc uses this oath on graduation of a medical faculty in the UK
| UK GMC wrote: |
The duties of a doctor registered with the General Medical Council
Patients must be able to trust doctors with their lives and health. To justify that trust you must show respect for human life and you must:
* Make the care of your patient your first concern
* Protect and promote the health of patients and the public
* Provide a good standard of practice and care
o Keep your professional knowledge and skills up to date
o Recognise and work within the limits of your competence
o Work with colleagues in the ways that best serve patients' interests
* Treat patients as individuals and respect their dignity
o Treat patients politely and considerately
o Respect patients' right to confidentiality
* Work in partnership with patients
o Listen to patients and respond to their concerns and preferences
o Give patients the information they want or need in a way they can understand
o Respect patients' right to reach decisions with you about their treatment and care
o Support patients in caring for themselves to improve and maintain their health
* Be honest and open and act with integrity
o Act without delay if you have good reason to believe that you or a colleague may be putting patients at risk
o Never discriminate unfairly against patients or colleagues
o Never abuse your patients' trust in you or the public's trust in the profession.
You are personally accountable for your professional practice and must always be prepared to justify your decisions and actions. |
|
Earthbinder
|
the US version is more like the original:
| US GMC wrote: |
Hippocratic Oath—Modern Version
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help. |
Basically the modern version remove the "Do no Harm" part but replace it with "respect the requirements of the patient"
there is no where in either version that state a doctor must give aid when asked, but both imply that this should be the case.
i personally have always like the first paragraph of the original, it reminds me just how "secular" the medical profession is and quite seriously that doctors help doctors be doctors.
|
Esther
|
Re: Hippocratic oathI'd never read any of those in full so thanks for posting them. Some how it doens't suprise me the UK verison is extremely matter of fact and the american one is more flowery
| Earthbinder wrote: |
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. |
When i read that I thought it meant all doctors had to be celibert.
|
Earthbinder
|
i have no idea why its in the original but it does make me a bit worried about Ancient Greek Doctors. should we ever develop time trael it may be worth watching whos house you enter 
|
Grace
|
| Earthbinder wrote: | Doctor:Psycholgy - strikes me as the guy/gal whos really good with the bedside manner, cna get you up and about and feeling better even if your body just wants to let it lie.
Doctor:Genetics - would unfortunatly be most modern doctors these days as genetic testing is more then ever the norm for diagnosis (okay most diagnosis still goes through the basic physical:bloods:genetic route but almost all treatment is decided upon by the results of genetic assays) excpeting Trauma cases like fractures and GSW's
Doctor:Ecology - is the Brazillian/African research doctor whos working for the big P companies looking into new drug production and medical testing
Doctor:Anatomy&Physiology - is the surgeon, be it a cardio, neuro or other, and also the trauma specalist (that being the majority of damge inflicted by weapons it seems mostl likely that UKGC would recruit more of this type of Dr into its ranks)
Doctor:Pathology - is the coroner, medical examiner and all round investigative doctor
hope this helps a bit? |
I see the logic in the divides but I still can't help but feel if you've blown all three starting levels in medical doctoring in order to be able to sew people up, you shouldn't have to give that up because you choose to take a different speciality than physiology.
For example with those guidelines, Dr Chase can no longer deal with trauma.
In a less combat involved system I would be all for having non-trauma-treating-medical-doctors but in the system we have I feel that geneticists would have less to do with their time than anatomy/physiologists.
My view is that if you take three medicine levels you can treat trauma. If you take a speciality it's more for research and non-crisis-investigations.
|
Earthbinder
|
i had it that the three levels of Doctor allowed you to do everything, the biology bit repersented "special skills and abilities" that allowed you to get away with Player flange at events
|
Esther
|
| Earthbinder wrote: | | i had it that the three levels of Doctor allowed you to do everything, the biology bit repersented "special skills and abilities" that allowed you to get away with Player flange at events |
That's how I saw it too.. all doctors do any doctor type stuff but they can fange more on un-usual stufff in their area but being a genetsict or whatever wouldn't stop you being a full putting people back together doctor as well.
|
Grace
|
Another version of the OathAlso (from Wikipedia)
The Declaration of Geneva was adopted by the General Assembly of the World Medical Association at Geneva in 1948 and amended in 1968, 1984, 1994, 2005 and 2006. It is a declaration of physicians' dedication to the humanitarian goals of medicine, a declaration that was especially important in view of the medical crimes which had just been committed in Nazi Germany. The Declaration of Geneva was intended to update the Oath of Hippocrates, which was no longer suited to modern conditions.
The Declaration of Geneva reads:
At the time of being admitted as a member of the medical profession:
* I solemnly pledge to consecrate my life to the service of humanity;
* I will give to my teachers the respect and gratitude that is their due;
* I will practice my profession with conscience and dignity;
* The health of my patient will be my first consideration;
* I will respect the secrets that are confided in me, even after the patient has died;
* I will maintain by all the means in my power, the honour and the noble traditions of the medical profession;
* My colleagues will be my sisters and brothers;
* I will not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;
* I will maintain the utmost respect for human life;
* I will not use my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;
* I make these promises solemnly, freely and upon my honour.
|
Olivia Chase
|
| Quote: | | * I will not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient; |
Maybe we should add 'species'
Or perhaps, maybe not...
|
Fenric
|
Re: Hippocratic oath | Earthbinder wrote: | | In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. |
There goes Kincaid's sex life 
|
Earthbinder
|
Doh that'll learn me i completly forgot about the geneva Decleration when i went hunting the hippo oath.
|
Esther
|
Boo. the modern one dons't say no hanky panky.. see how the moral standards have fallen 
|
Fenric
|
(Mr Burns) Excellent (/Mr Burns)
|
Doc Benton
|
it is intresing and i can see were pep are all coming from
i my self come from army medical traing and thay keep it simpel and i meen simpel
the principles of 1st aid
1) to prevent the cas condition from becoming worce.
2) not to be come a cas your self.
i will not gong to to the small print of the above lol
in the army the cmt (combat med tec) or rma (regemetan med atendent sametheing difrent uint)
you are traind in both paramed and nursing there for more felxibull on deployment were even and when ever (there are other more spec units for the nursing as well)
ALL mill (all ranks all jobs) have basic 1st aid as part of there tring and this is tessted every 12months and every 4 to 6 month be for a deployment. if thay fail thay will have to re-trin till thay pass.
most are cmt's as thay are the frunt line medics with the troops on the ground and when it comes down to it docs can do aneything with a dead man but a dieing man thay can. two thing iwas told from two difrent groups.
"im just a medic im here to keep you alive till the doc can fix you up (from a cmt 1"
"medic just make you comftbull be for you die doc's do the hard work (from cap/maj ramc)"
what id like to see is a guide for all 3 telling you waht you can do and what you can push to do and what you can not do.
my self as a ic thing would like to see ALL U.K.G.C having 1st aid as a skill something i still plan to do ic when were not runing for our lives lol.
|
|
|
|