Dangermouse
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CrewFolks
I want to start a discussion, to which I don`t have the answer, but its something we as a group need to consider.
To make events work we need crew. People seem amazed (and worried) when we had 18 crew (including refs) due to come. From previous events this seemed a lot but from about one third either had to cancel or just didn`t show. This isn`t a dig at them - just to emphasise the difficulty
Do we need large amounts of crew to run an event? From experience it certainly makes it easier and more varied.
Are people happy to play and crew an event? For my money it breaks up the atmosphere/immersion which is why I aimed for players just to play.
How do we encourage people to crew? To be honest some feats and downtime training doesn`t seem to make a difference since it was only the refs and total newbies who actually made it.
With more people in the society wanting to play and no apparent desire to run more events we either end up with more disappointed players or events with a larger number of players (which in turn leads to crew issues).
Events don`t run without crew and once again I thank all those people who crewed or offered to crew the last event.
But how do we get more people willing to crew?
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RHys Llewellyn
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A few things that seem to work at other systems is
1) Reward the Crew :- give them infact more downtime or something.
2) Bring a Monster :- Player pay less if they bring a monster with them (rather than them paying more not to crew).
3) Crew Then Play :- Pirority is given to people who crewed the last event.
(This stops people like well ME, who havnt crewed an event yet)
4) Crew = Money off :- Crewing an event gets you X off playing the next event.
5) Monster of the Match Award :- Best monster get next event FREE or similar.
Ill be totally honest all these have a flaws with them but seemed to help.
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Jess Parker
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One of the bonuses I have noticed is that more and more players want to run events. This is great and we are currently looking at events until December 2010 
Lots of crew does really make a better event and I am happy to crew during an event I have paid to play BUT it does break the immersion, especially if you are as busy as Jess was last event, lol. From what I have experienced/witnessed you need a team of organisers who all know what is going on, and if they can then rope in a load of mates to come crew that is awesome. Crew are always needed and appreciated.
Dont forget that crewing gives you a glimpse of the other side of the game process and quite often encourages players to want to host their own events once they know how it is done
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Jade Dragon
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| RHys Llewellyn wrote: | A few things that seem to work at other systems is
1) Reward the Crew :- give them infact more downtime or something.
2) Bring a Monster :- Player pay less if they bring a monster with them (rather than them paying more not to crew).
3) Crew Then Play :- Pirority is given to people who crewed the last event.
(This stops people like well ME, who havnt crewed an event yet)
4) Crew = Money off :- Crewing an event gets you X off playing the next event.
5) Monster of the Match Award :- Best monster get next event FREE or similar.
Ill be totally honest all these have a flaws with them but seemed to help. |
I have to say that in many ways I prefer crewing but was told that I should give playing a go and therefore have these past few events.
I think if your having problems getting crew to attend then maybe the crew rewards need to be looked at. I think the above ideas are all good. I know they arnt without flaws and Im not saying you need to do them all but prehaps as much as increasing the amount of downtime points and feats you get for crewing to more than what you get playing would help fro example. It doesnt cost the society anything and gives more reason for players to want to crew.
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Jess Parker
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One big bonus you get for crewing...full downtime, three feats (that you wont blow during the event as you are crewing) and your character lives!! Result
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RHys Llewellyn
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Stupid question, surely youll have wanted to blow them really since that gets you closer to permenant?
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darren1
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I have no problems with crewing a few times per event. For me it breaks things up nicely and allows me to do things that my character wouldn't do.
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Jess Parker
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| RHys Llewellyn wrote: | | Stupid question, surely youll have wanted to blow them really since that gets you closer to permenant? |
Well yes if you are after the permanent feats, but I don't tend to think that I am going to spend so many of a feat regardless to get the permanent one, but use them when they are apt and needed. I do like having a number of feats stored away for those unexpected moments, but thats just me And I keep forgetting I have jammies until after the firefight, lol.
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RHys Llewellyn
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Crew for the whole event is what i think we are after, personally i usally love crewing.
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Klaus Von Bekk
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i think that the crew then play idea is good, it costs nothing and makes sure crew dont get left out playing if they book later.
how about these ideas:
crew points: ie each time you crew a mission or event you earn points for crewing, then you get to chose weather to spend those points on extra downtime or extra feats and everyone going to an event gets the normal feats downtime?
meaning if a player comes to an event and decides to wrew the whole event they has as much fun but get 3 months downtime 9 feats and say 9 crew points (for either 2 months downtime or 6 more feats - 4 points a month, 3 points for 2 feats)
crewing teams: take a whole team off to crew (ie: north/wellington/dirt(macdonald)/etc..) that way the crew bonds ooc as well as ic and you get a whole group of 5/6 crew for a mission, that team can be schedualed in and made sure that they arent planned to do anything ic during that time
crew only feats: give feats for crewing that you can ONLY get by crewing, ie really really cool unusual or special ones (eg: Heroic moment - use this feat to ignrore two problem cards of your choice in the task you use this feat or Gambit dash: after you have called this feat you may run 50ft and ignore all calls of damage so long as no other action but moving and shouting is taken place)
(i like crew only feats idea)
crew character bonuses: (like crew feats,) ie: give an extra vitality bonus to the crew when they crew a whole event or let them have to not do upkeep for bodybuilder. give temporary character bonuses like: at the next event has +2 body or +3 vitality etc.. be creative some might be popular
will x
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Jade Dragon
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| Klaus Von Bekk wrote: | i think that the crew then play idea is good, it costs nothing and makes sure crew dont get left out playing if they book later.
how about these ideas:
crew points: ie each time you crew a mission or event you earn points for crewing, then you get to chose weather to spend those points on extra downtime or extra feats and everyone going to an event gets the normal feats downtime?
meaning if a player comes to an event and decides to wrew the whole event they has as much fun but get 3 months downtime 9 feats and say 9 crew points (for either 2 months downtime or 6 more feats - 4 points a month, 3 points for 2 feats)
crewing teams: take a whole team off to crew (ie: north/wellington/dirt(macdonald)/etc..) that way the crew bonds ooc as well as ic and you get a whole group of 5/6 crew for a mission, that team can be schedualed in and made sure that they arent planned to do anything ic during that time
crew only feats: give feats for crewing that you can ONLY get by crewing, ie really really cool unusual or special ones (eg: Heroic moment - use this feat to ignrore two problem cards of your choice in the task you use this feat or Gambit dash: after you have called this feat you may run 50ft and ignore all calls of damage so long as no other action but moving and shouting is taken place)
(i like crew only feats idea)
crew character bonuses: (like crew feats,) ie: give an extra vitality bonus to the crew when they crew a whole event or let them have to not do upkeep for bodybuilder. give temporary character bonuses like: at the next event has +2 body or +3 vitality etc.. be creative some might be popular
will x |
Well currently you get half downtime/feats for crewing. Thats 3of each insted of 6 of each. I like the crew only feat idea. I think that would work great. So prehaps then full downtime/feats plus one or two crew only feats on top of that earned for great crewing or something.
I dont think the team thing would work. It would depend on the writers requirements for missions they might only need one person, they might not be team specific,ie an assault on base, or it might just require a ref and some props. Though I do think it would help even out the ammount each player gats to do all weekend because it would mean you can tell whos going out on missions and make sure everyone has equal opportunity... ie a number of missions are written for each team and the skills the team has therefore everyone gets to go offworld equally. But thats straying from the point....
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Freeman
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As I recall (I don't have the constitution to hand, so if someone from the committee could correct me that'd be great) but:
Crew get full downtime (3 months learning, research, etc) and 3 Feats (As opposed to the 9 that people who have played the event get).
I don't think that's entirely unreasonable at all, and is a LOT more than many systems give their crews.
I also believe that the previous system of letting people pay different fees to crew a mission or not is also a great idea because some people simply don't like crewing. If those people are on one team it then becomes easy for one team (between 4-7 people depending) to go on a 'scouting mission' and bugger off to the crew hut to get kitted up for crewing.
I have only ever been to one system that doesn't ask players to crew at some point over the weekend, and that system (now defunct sadly) had a dedicated crew of around 20 people, and in the last couple of events had a crew base that outnumbered the players. There were no incentivces (that I was aware of) in this system to keep the crew as crew, the system was just lucky enough to have a large number of people who wanted to crew.
I think ocation had something to do with it, as all of the crew happened to live within a couple of hours of most of the event sites used.
In short, I don't think we'll ever find the perfect system for encouraging crew beyond what we have already, which is as I have said, already by far the most generous I've seen in any LRP system.
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Fenric
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/agree with Rob
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comedyofhate
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hmm an additional idea which may work for some sg events but not others.
once the player cap has been hit for the event. offer out limited player/crew spots. Say 50% of the normal entry fee but you will be crewing 50% of the time.
Assuming time in around 8pm friday, time out 4pm saturday, plus two eight ooc sleep slots. that is 28 hours IC play time. you would get 14 hours of those play time in one block. at the start of the event or near the end of the event.
Ergo start of the event. you go ic 8pm on friday, time out 2am, the clock stops ticking . time in at 10am, the clock starts againt.. you get to carry on playing till . 6pm saturday , thats it playing time is over you are now crew.
fluff.
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Klaus Von Bekk
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i think its going to be hard to get many more crew only people for an event than we currently do, so ways of making players crew a bit more and enjoying it are going to solve the problem best.
ie: the crew feats and group crewing
if a mission only requires 2 crew there will most likely be the crew only people there to run it, and if more are needed a team can be sent 'scouting' to provide more crew
i dont agree with crew being free totally though, it is a good incentive but at least i thnk they should pay 10/15 pounds for camping. because otherwise if we start getting more crew we will need to pay more for more people at a campsite with less people paying?
not that i dont appreceate what crewers do, (love you guys lol) im just thinking logistics wise
will x
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Richard Tyler
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| Klaus Von Bekk wrote: |
i dont agree with crew being free totally though, it is a good incentive but at least i thnk they should pay 10/15 pounds for camping. because otherwise if we start getting more crew we will need to pay more for more people at a campsite with less people paying? |
Nope .. charge crew and you dont get any crew. I'd rather have less budget for props and more crew than vice versa. More crew is more cost effective and gives a better result than the equivalent cost in proppage.
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Jean-Pierre
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We don't get enough crew as it is charging would only make matters worse.
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Jade Dragon
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| Quote: | As I recall (I don't have the constitution to hand, so if someone from the committee could correct me that'd be great) but:
Crew get full downtime (3 months learning, research, etc) and 3 Feats (As opposed to the 9 that people who have played the event get).
I don't think that's entirely unreasonable at all, and is a LOT more than many systems give their crews. |
Crew get 3 downtime and 3 feats... I believe thats what I said before. 9? what do you mean 9 I thought players got 6D and 6F? Im not saying that 3/3 is unreasonable but if the people running events arnt getting enough crew then you must have an issue and I believe thats what we are discussing.
Now I dont think that giving equal feats/downtimes to playing is totally unreasonable if you are having a problem recruting crew. It is the cheepest option and will still allow people to develop their characters in the same way as if they had played. I mean at the moment thats one of the reasons I didnt crew this time because I wanted the extra downtime points to spend because I want to develop my character more quickly because I have a new character with limited skills compared to everyone else. If you think that it is unreasonable that people gain stuff while not actually playing there character prehaps then you could say they gain the points and feats but can only use them with the next player downtime they have. EG. what I mean is they would gain the downtimes and feats but could only add them to their character AFTER the next time they have played when they submit their character downtimes form after the event played. (does that make any sence or am I just waffling?)
| Quote: | i dont agree with crew being free totally though, it is a good incentive but at least i thnk they should pay 10/15 pounds for camping. because otherwise if we start getting more crew we will need to pay more for more people at a campsite with less people paying?
Nope .. charge crew and you dont get any crew. I'd rather have less budget for props and more crew than vice versa. More crew is more cost effective and gives a better result than the equivalent cost in proppage. |
I agree If it cost more then you'd have even less people to work with.
| Quote: | once the player cap has been hit for the event. offer out limited player/crew spots. Say 50% of the normal entry fee but you will be crewing 50% of the time.
Assuming time in around 8pm friday, time out 4pm saturday, plus two eight ooc sleep slots. that is 28 hours IC play time. you would get 14 hours of those play time in one block. at the start of the event or near the end of the event.
Ergo start of the event. you go ic 8pm on friday, time out 2am, the clock stops ticking . time in at 10am, the clock starts againt.. you get to carry on playing till . 6pm saturday , thats it playing time is over you are now crew. |
I dont think that would work for running cartain plots. I mean for example the last event we were stuck on a planet with no way home. Where exactly are the people who are only there 50% of the time going to say they are going if the start off the weekend playing or if they were to come in half way through where would they be coming from?
I also noticed there were a large amount of people in the system that when they discovered the 30 places were full they didnt want to come at all. All those people who wanted to play but couldnt at the last event just couldnt be asked to come and help insted. I understand that crewing isnt everyones cup of tea but in order to make something like this work everyone should have to do their fair share. Now there are alot of people I believe in the SG system at the mo. Why not say that if you want to play you have to crew at least one of the 4 events (3 normal + xmas) in the year.
Now Im not saying I have any problem with the current way you are running things. Im happy to crew or play but if the people who are volunteering their time and effort to run events for everyone else think that they arnt getting enough support through crew numbers then surely that indecates some changes should be TRIED to see if it would improve things. I know crew numbers wernt an issue for this last event but the first event Dom brought me to I was one of 2 crew. Just trying to make some suggestions based on oppinion... Im not saying anyone need listen to me.
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Jean-Pierre
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| Quote: | | I also noticed there were a large amount of people in the system that when they discovered the 30 places were full they didnt want to come at all. All those people who wanted to play but couldnt at the last event just couldnt be asked to come and help insted. I understand that crewing isnt everyones cup of tea but in order to make something like this work everyone should have to do their fair share. Now there are alot of people I believe in the SG system at the mo. Why not say that if you want to play you have to crew at least one of the 4 events (3 normal + xmas) in the year. |
Some of the crew were players who failed to book in time but more would of been nice.
As for downtime I think you might of read things wrong. Crew get 3 downtime slots and players get 3 downtime slots. Crew get 3 feats and Players get 9.
The important bit is crew and players both get the important 3 slots towards skill progression.
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Jade Dragon
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| Jean-Pierre wrote: | | Quote: | | I also noticed there were a large amount of people in the system that when they discovered the 30 places were full they didnt want to come at all. All those people who wanted to play but couldnt at the last event just couldnt be asked to come and help insted. I understand that crewing isnt everyones cup of tea but in order to make something like this work everyone should have to do their fair share. Now there are alot of people I believe in the SG system at the mo. Why not say that if you want to play you have to crew at least one of the 4 events (3 normal + xmas) in the year. |
Some of the crew were players who failed to book in time but more would of been nice.
As for downtime I think you might of read things wrong. Crew get 3 downtime slots and players get 3 downtime slots. Crew get 3 feats and Players get 9.
The important bit is crew and players both get the important 3 slots towards skill progression. |
Well maybe Ive got things wrong then. When I crewed before I started playing I got 3 downtime POINTs to spend and 3 Feats for each of the 2 events I crewed. For a total of 6/6 to add to creating a character.
Now for every time I have sence submitted the form Ive gotten 6 points to spend over 3 slots. and 6 feats (NOT 9). No one has ever told me Im doing it wrong and I can only go by what I was told when I made the character and no one has corrected me sence. Im not saying Im right but thats how it was explained to me.
Now if someone needs to explain the difference between a DOWNTIME and a SLOT to me then fair enough. But in the past Ive for example slot 1 insider information, slot 2 downtimes paided off learning a skill and slot 3 something random.
If this is wrong then why hasnt someone writen to me and said "what the hell are you thinking?"
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Richard Tyler
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you get 3 feats per day (or part of) played. Last event was over 3 days so you get 9 .. Christmas was over 2 days so there were 6. Im sure jD will correct me if Im wrong.
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Jade Dragon
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| Richard Tyler wrote: | | you get 3 feats per day (or part of) played. Last event was over 3 days so you get 9 .. Christmas was over 2 days so there were 6. Im sure jD will correct me if Im wrong. |
Well no one told me and I only picked 6feats for the last 2 events Ive played. (not xmas) I got 3 downtime points and 5 feats for xmas. I know because Ive been keeping a record of what Ive been taking. I did ask several people on different occations how it was done cause Im not that smart and needed clarification to the point of annoying the people I was asking because Id asked so many times.
Now are these 9 the ones you write on the back of your slip to used during the days you are there? Or is that something completely different?
Cause I picked some stuff after the xmas game then when I turned up to play the next event properly JD told me to write more on the back of my sheet each day. i did specifically ask and he did say "yes... more" Now if Ive totally gotten this wrong but thats how ive been doing it.
6 points over 3 slots and 6 feats is all i got/used after the event in the spring and thats what I assumed Id get after this one.
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Jess Parker
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On the back of your character card there are nine slots (divided into three sets of three) You fill in three slots each day with your chosen feats, totalling 9.
On top of that you get your three learning slots on your downtime and then your research (it is explained on the form how much you can do and the results you can expect for doing more projects in the same downtime). There is jet another slot for experimental kit/dreaming spires etc.
If you have crewed you wont have had a character card at the event so you list your three feats on the downtime form. If you played you can either list the feats you took on the form (all 9) or if you have handed in your card you do not need to list them.
Xmas was only a 2 day event so players only got 6 feats (3 per day).
Hope this helps
Addition - Pages 39-41 of the current rules also detail the process for downtime submission.
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Jade Dragon
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Not really. So what your telling me is I've gotten everything completely wrong.
So for the 3 slots your saying that for example to learn a language set it will take me 3 events to learn if I use all 3 slots each time to learn one months worth off the required cost each time?
And I thought I was told that the ones you write on the back of your sheet during the event was completely different to what you put on the form thingy. Im not sure I wasnt really keeping count on what I recieved.
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Jade Dragon
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OK... so ive gone back an re read every email JD has sent me and although I cant say what exactly what I remember people telling me cause right now Im totally confused from over thinking it all night. Im going to have to say I will now re send my form to JD and ask what the hell Im supposed to have.
No one told me the last form I sent was wrong so ill just have to sort it with JD over a PM.
Thanks.
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Freeman
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All she's telling you is how the rules work.
To learn a language in downtime without assistance takes 7 months.
That is two full downtimes, and one slot from a third.
However, crash courses, and tutors will reduce that time.
If you have a tutor for three slots, and crash course your language in the event immediately prior to the downtime you will complete the language in one downtime.
7 months -1 month (crash course) -3 months (three lots of tutelage) = 3 months to learn a language.
(Refs - or others, if I'm wrong tell me)
---
As to feats per event.
Every morning you will likely have seen players writing their three feats on the back of their sheets, andthe refs reminding players to take their three feats.
As the days progressed you may bave seen players writing the feats that they have used on the back of their sheets. This is to keep tally of what was used and what was not.
At the end of the event these sheets were supposed to be handed in to the plot coordinator so that he can update your character record with the aggregate change of feats for your character.
If you did not hand the character card in, there is space on the online downtime form to repeat this information. It says as much on the online form.
Also on the online form you may:
Use three available slots to
1. learn skills
2. teach skills
3. improve skills
4. go on random missions
In addition to this you may dedicate a section of your downtime to a special skill (Inside Information, Experimental Kit, Dreaming SPires)
On top of that you have time available to perform research into anything that your character has skills in.
This also goes in its own box on the form.
There is another box for 'anything else' which could be from documenting socialising, making contacts in new areas, going on vacation, hosting a new TV show (Yes Nash I'm looking at you) etc.
The very bottom of the form is expressly for those who have crewed the event to claim their three feats.
I hope this helps to clear things up for you.
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Freeman
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Sorry - your last post was made while I was typing mine.
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Jess Parker
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| Jade Dragon wrote: | | Not really. So what your telling me is I've gotten everything completely wrong. |
Didn't mean to cause offence, I was just trying to explain how it works and didn't mean for you to feel that I was tellng you that anything you had done in the past was incorrect.
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Dangermouse
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one of the comments made on hot or not a couple of time was about crew not knowing the rules or holding hands inthe air. We can't rely on new crew. We need experienced players to join the crew.
So let me rephrase the original question. What would convince you to crew an event rather than play or would get you to crew if the player places were filled.
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Jess Parker
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If the player places were filled I would offer to crew, but getting a spot to play would be my preference. However I have no objection to crewing a mission during the event and actually love crewing, especially if I can get some imaginative roles and not just jaffa on the left.
Maybe giving crew a personal role from the plot characters that they can really get into, along with the myriad of redshirt characters that they will also play would draw more people in. I know that if I was crewing the whole event and knew in advance that I would be playing the evil goa'uld queen of the north I would make damn sure that I could make it and make that role my own.
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Jacqueline
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A mixed play/crew for half cost, now that does sound good.
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sm0keyb
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When we were drawing up the Society rules/constitution, the question of rewards for crewing came up. I suggested crew only feats then & I still think it's a good idea. I'm surprised if the crew are rewarded more generously than in other systems. Three feats doesn't seem an awful lot when you get nine for playing. If my character had taken a beating & I wanted to build up a stack of jammies & deaths doors to keep him alive, I might crew for a bit but not to crew three games (a whole year) to get the equivalent of one events player feats. If there were snackies for crewing that couldn't be had any other way, I'd crew. I'll probably crew for Debs next game, & I'd be happy to play Taiman or Jeremy Crankshaw, the two I NPCed for her. Maybe it's worth organisers trying to assemble a dedicated crew for their particular games.
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comedyofhate
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I crew events because it is paying back into the larp scene in general in which I play. larp is run by volunteers. if you only ever play events, or dont help with out the logistics in some way, you are in essence being fucking selfish.
Seriously folks, there are four events a year. if you plan to attend all four, attend one as a crew member/ref/organiser, or help out like nigel or the committee from behind the scenes.
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Isobel Watts
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Any event run by Rob/Tonya gets me crewing, though whether thats a good thing or not is debatable!
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Jess Parker
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I will be crewing again for Rob and Debs next year also.
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sm0keyb
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| comedyofhate wrote: | | if you only ever play events, or dont help with out the logistics in some way, you are in essence being fucking selfish. |
Considering that we all pay to play I think you're being a little harsh there Tony. It's great if people do want to put something back in but if they've paid their dues they can hardly be criticised for simply having what they've paid for. Really, to get reliable crew people have got to want to do it, not feel it's an obligation on them for having played.
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comedyofhate
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actually I entirely disagree nigel. most larp and specifcally stargate larp, paying to play means you are paying for booking the site, props etc. .
All the plot, downtimes, running around by the crew, time off booked by people crewing and committee, work done by yourself etc, etc. is all done out of good will. players are not paying for that good will.
If you cannot afford to turn up and play or have missed the booking deadline, then turn up and crew if you can get to the site. It really is that simple.
Whilst it is not an obligation, if someone is prepared to crew for you, then return the favour and crew for them. Otherwise I think the term selfish is very appropiate.
More crew = better events.
Better events = more crew & players
If people are prepared just to crew one event a year as opposed to playing all four, then it will make a massive difference.
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sm0keyb
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Put that way, yes I can see where you're coming from. Even so, human nature is what it is. I tend to think people, particularly players will crew most readily if there's a direct incentive to do so. "We might not give you such a good game/ might have to reduce the number of games" etc, etc is a little too distant to motivate most people.
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Jess Parker
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I have found that the people in this system and the system itself make me WANT to put in more. I don't mind at all that it is unpaid and voluntary, but it is great to feel like part of a community, which is what Stargate has become.
Many larps lack the sense of family that this one does. From day one the newcomer is involved and looked after.
Saying that, I love playing too. Although I am happy to f/t crew for one event in four I wouldn't want to miss out on playing too often. I would still happily part-time crew at every event if I was needed. I think most people feel the same.
I am still looking forward to running an event although that looks like it wont be happening for quite a while, lol. I know how much work goes into it, and how exhausted I will be afterwards, but it is still something I would love to and am very willing to do.
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Freeman
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Everyone has different views on crewing. Some people, I know, have a thorough dislike of it and would be willing to pay a higher event price to not crew - as has happened in the past here. I see no problem with that, instead of helping outby crewing they're helping by increased funding.
I'm not a fan of crewing, but I'm more than happy to help out run an event per year and pay a lower player fee to crew a mission during the event.
I also think that attempting to coerce people into crewing one per year may lose us good players who simply hate crewing. Again I say the system as it stands works, and I don't think we'll be able to improve upon it.
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comedyofhate
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hey, I am not saying coerce people into crewing, I suppose I am saying crewing is like going down on some one after they have done it for you. most consider it polite. 
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Jess Parker
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Well when you put it that way....
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sm0keyb
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Very succinctly put Tony. I commend your use of imagery 
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Freeman
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It wouldn't be Tony if it wasn't durrrty...
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Klaus Von Bekk
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haha, tony tony tony  lol
errm, i agree with tonya, i would most often rather play but if i cant get to play there isnt a thing in the 'verse gonna stop me from getting to crew, i get to still go and its free? (i might be doing more of this when im at uni, you know with money sparce and all)
but i think more incentives to crew (ie: to make it not my second choice but one of equal worth) would be things you can only get through crewing.
as mentioned before, crew only feats.. have only a small effect on the game system but can be a really nice reward for crewing
another option is to give people an extra vitality? (not so sure how this would affect the system)
or even letting them have the first pick of: snackie experimental weapons/ cool insider information/ bonuses to reduce learning time (incorporating experimental kit/insider info/dreaming spires) to represent the bonus time and effort they put in while theyre character was off finding stuff out not attending the event
other ideas that would make people want to crew over play occasionally?
will x
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Jess Parker
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What we dont want to do is overcomplicate things, or on the flip side make the benefits of crewing break the system.
At the moment a crew member gets the same downtime as a player, but they only get three feats instead of nine. It works as far as I can see and what we dont want to do is have all crew and no players due to the overwhelming benefits available.
I know it would be pretty extreme if that happened, but we are after all exploring all posibilities here.
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Klaus Von Bekk
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that is a fair comment to mention, but if people are crewing all the time then the benefits gained for their characters are pointless so i think it would become a fair balance of people wanting snackys for crewing but also wanting to use those by playing(meaning people crew 1/3 events or 1/4 events on average)
but its an important fact to keep in mind, we dont want crewing to be so good it stops people from wanting to play, just good enough so it attracts a few more
will x
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Jade Dragon
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| Jess Parker wrote: | If the player places were filled I would offer to crew, but getting a spot to play would be my preference. However I have no objection to crewing a mission during the event and actually love crewing, especially if I can get some imaginative roles and not just jaffa on the left.
Maybe giving crew a personal role from the plot characters that they can really get into, along with the myriad of redshirt characters that they will also play would draw more people in. I know that if I was crewing the whole event and knew in advance that I would be playing the evil goa'uld queen of the north I would make damn sure that I could make it and make that role my own. |
I think that would be nice. Be able to play more in depth NPC's
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Klaus Von Bekk
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i agree as well,playing a character (even if its not yourse is more fun than a faceless nameless redshirt)
will x
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Olivia Chase
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Coming back to this, I have seen how quickly the places are going for the next event, I think it would be nice to suggest that as three main events are run a year, if everyone plays two and crews a third everyone who wants to play gets a turn.
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kiwi
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I can appriceate the whole thing about monstering and have enjoyed the time I have but from a personel point most people who play are from the area we are playing in however for people who live north of the M60/62, it starts to get very expensive, for example in attending this next event i expect to be paying about , a hundered to hundred and twenty pound in fuel alone and this is a very expensive way to develop your character if all you are doing is monstering
If we were to have games north of M62/60 it may be worth while.
I would also like to know why we are restricting to 35 players considering that players are crewing, it cant be because we lack crew.
We have over a hundred members and with more joining, people are going to be lucky to play one event with this restriction, and when that happens people are going to leave as they cant get on a game.
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dante73
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You say "only 35" as if it is some sort of decrease, when it is an increase of five players on the last event.
The reason it is no more is because the crew numbers cannot be guaranteed.
If we end up with, say, six or seven crew, even with about 25 of the players doing one mission each, that isn't enough for 35, let alone any more (unless you want the players to consistently outnumber the monsters, which just forces upstatting).
Even if we did see an increase in crew, those of us who can remember the 48 player Event 2 (which had significantly higher crew levels than have been achieved since), the ability of organisers and players to co-ordinate things deteriorated badly, having a negative impact on most people's enjoyment.
I'd suggest if you feel strongly about a location further north and larger numbers you put yourself down to run an event when a slot becomes available.
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Olivia Chase
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Also, it's not only crew, I found in running event 12 that the very way the game is run is very unlike a fest game, and that takes alot more time, crew, and most importantly, refs.
For a geme with 35 players you have 7 teams of five, or 5 teams of 6 and one of five. Of those -
Two are offworld on missions, this needs two sets of crew and two refs.
The rest are on base - one ref needs to be on base at all times
Then a ref is needed with the crew at all times, so you are looking at 4 refs.
If you want stuff kicking off at the same time as missions (which you do to prevent people being bored) you have three sets of crew.
In a traditional style of LARP we may make do with less, but we are not, the action is spread over and for that we need more.
As to the site issue? If you know of any Northern sites that are affordable (ie under £800 for exclusive use) then please let Tonya know as we are trying to build up a list of future sites.
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James Merryweather
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My personal experience of crewing the odd mission is:
"You are Jaffa number 3, charge in there and try to kill the players, when you die, put your hand in the air and walk back around the corner then respawn. I'll tell you when to stop"
I don't find this a fulfilling roleplay experience and prefer to pay the extra cost to not crew.
I'm sure that others have a different perspective on this but those are my feelings
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Freeman
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For anyone mentioning distance, for most events I have travelled around 400-500miles (round trip). i have to admit that the distance involved often makes me think twice about attending, but the events are so good to play that i attend anyway. talk of more events in the north pains me and my wallet.
i can't be sure I'd travel that far to crew an event.
how about more events in the south?
Yes a lot of crewing roles tend to be mooks, and like carl i dont find mooking to be an enoyable part of roleplay.
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Jess Parker
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The bottom line is that we all pay our membership and we should all be able to choose whether we want to play, crew or run. We all know that when the paypal button goes up the places go very fast, but that is a sign of a successful system and if someone has missed the boat on one event they could have the money ready for the next one and be first on the button.
More crew would be the answer to more players, and I would like to see more player places available, but if the system is growing in popularity and member numbers are rising perhaps more events per year would be a different solution. Insurance would go up but with more members that would be covered and 6 events a year rather than 4 would create 70 extra playing slots and 2 extra running slots for those who are lining up to run an event. Another answer would be to find a permanent crew base, ie folks from other systems who love crewing and would be willing to be our bad guys on a regular basis in return for a free weekend away.
Those that crew are much appreciated, but those that do not wish to should have their decision respected and not feel badgered into doing it.
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RHys Llewellyn
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Out of curiosity, what would you say a permenant crew would get for there trouble?
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Jess Parker
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Idk lol, was just a thought. Other systems have permanent crew who do it for the joy of crewing, have personal character parts and don't pay anything to play.
Sometimes they get food, lol, dependant on the system.
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Jean-Pierre
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I guess you could say the system is a bit of a victim of its own success as far as numbers are concerned.
It may well be that we move to 6 events a year which certainly gives more play opportunity but I would be surprised if you could find crew for 6 events a year.
More interestingly I think 6 events a year would fundamentally change the feel of the game.
As it stands you have a hardcore of players who attend every event and as such give a feel of continuity to the ongoing story and certainly allow for long term plot to span events as you can be sure a number of players will of experienced each strand of said plot. This also is part of what gives stargate its intimate feel, you know with a degree of certainty where ever you go Dr Chase will be around to patch you up, Merryweather will fix the gate, Savage will make bad jokes. A large increase in the number of events I feel would damage that aspect of the game.
Naturally if numbers continue to grow we may have little other choice but I feel its important to consider the effects it might have.
Marc
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Jess Parker
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I agree to be fair, and I was only throwing suggestions out there
I love the way the game feels, that I know the people I am going to be working with and that it feels like we are part of something intimate. There is an element of elitism to that but again, if you get your payments in you will be there, if not you need to be ready for the next one.
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Richard Tyler
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| Jess Parker wrote: | | More crew would be the answer to more players, and I would like to see more player places available, but if the system is growing in popularity and member numbers are rising perhaps more events per year would be a different solution. |
Speaking from experience, to keep the quality of the events, 35 is the absolute maximum. For every increase of 5 players you have a new team to keep amused and thats another 8 or so missions before you get started. More crew will help a bit but it's a massive ask to have more players and keep the quality.
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kiwi
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You say "only 35" as if it is some sort of decrease, when it is an increase of five players on the last event.
I far as I'm aware this and the last event have been the only ones that have had a restricted places shown/ discussed.
As for me running an event, I would like to but
1. I have never run an event, so not entirley sure what is required
2. Access to props this being the issue as pointed out by our president to reuse where possible, being in the north east chasing down to where the props are every time I need to get things, would make the cost to me prohabtive
3. I dont have facilities or even space to make a lot of props.
now having said all that if people have ways round the above points great I,m listening
If somebody in the north wants help to run I,m interested
and as regard to sites up north I will have a look
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Richard Tyler
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| kiwi wrote: | I far as I'm aware this and the last event have been the only
ones that have had a restricted places shown/ discussed |
It wasn't necesary before as we struggled to get the numbers to some previous events
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Fenric
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As James said, early on we nearly cancelled (two)? events due to low numbers. So our higher numbers are a blessing... and a curse
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Jess Parker
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As far as running an event is concerned, the committee are putting together an organiser pack to help new organisers out with what you need to do. If you would like me to look for a site for you that is cool so long as you specify an area as the North is a big place, especially when you are as far down south as I am, but be aware that we are now booking January 2011 onwards so there is a little bit of a wait.
Props dont have to be complicated to be effective and can be as compact as you need. Many of the props in the caravan can be used as is so wouldn't need changing, just lugging up to the site and if folks are coming your way anyway hopefully someone is going to be able to bring the caravan for you.
Hopefully that will give you some things to consider. Let us know if you are definately up for it
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dante73
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It's great to hear that an organisers pack is being put together. Go Exec!
I think it would also be useful to have a procedure for applying to run an event and clarity over how they are allocated. It would be very unfortunate if people became discouraged from running because of misunderstandings over the allocation process.
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Jess Parker
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Agreed. At the moment from my perspective people let us know they want to run, for how many, site requirements and the area they want and I get on the phone and book it, then let them know the details and the budget for the event. It is on a first come first served system hence the long lead time on the next available running slot.
I know JD has the most involvement as he is dealing with the plot and in my opinion that is where the application needs to be placed really. If the organiser-to-be has a cracking idea then the plot coordinator should be the one give the initial thumbs up for whatever slot the organiser-to-be wants to take. From there it should go to site booking, although we are trying to book way ahead atm in order to get great prices and great sites, and are already lined up to book the site for September 2010 as soon as this one is over.
Ofc this needs more work lol, but is just my initial brain spew on the idea.
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