comedyofhate
|
combat rules hurt may brain!So how complicated do you think the combat rules are?
|
Jean-Pierre
|
Would you care to split this into two polls. One for combat rules and one for "other" rules?
|
Mali
|
Agreed!
|
comedyofhate
|
ooh, sounds gravy. deleted and crecreated the pole, so everyone has to vote again.
|
sm0keyb
|
I tend to think there's not enough differentiation between the standard calls of weapons in different groups.
|
Broz
|
I'll second Nigel on the sniper rifles, really they're worthless on general use (a SMG has more ammo, more compact and is easier and cheaper to souce as a prop.) Sniper shot really doesn't make up for it as the call either get's missed (see below) or anything worth it's use either has shields, jammy bastard or is otherwise invulnerable (wish i'd never taken the skill for calvin.)
That aside I think enough flexibility exists in the system to represent just about anything, and the sweep of the rules are easy to remember.
However...
I do feel very, very strongly that the system is needlessly chaotic and requires a tweak to smooth combat out.
In the other call based system I do (SINergy) if you are shot, you either defend against the damage (dive out the way / manfully take the hit on armour) or fall over wounded. And nothing else.
I'd like to see similar in Stargate. I would hope that it's effect would be to slow the shouting of calls down and allow players to keep a better track of damage and proper call targeting. Rather than the current two groups of people facing each other shouting.
"SINGLE SINGLE DOUBLE THOUGH SPRAY FIRE DOUBLE DOUBLE SINGLE QUAD SPRAY FIRE DOUBLE DOUBLE THROUGH DOUBLE TRIPLE SINGLE TRIPLE COVER FIRE DOUBLE THROUGH COVER FIRE GLOBAL KNOCKDOWN DOUBLE COVER FIRE SINGLE DOUBLE THOUGH DOUBLE DOUBLE SPRAY FIRE SINGLE SINGLE DOUBLE SPRAY FIRE QUAD THOUGH DOUBLE GLOBAL KNOCKDOWN COVER FIRE DOUBLE THROUGH SPRAY FIRE DOUBLE CRITICAL HIT SINGLE ROCKET DAMAGE SINGLE SINGLE COVER FIRE DOUBLE THOUGH DOUBLE DOUBLE SINGLE....."
I'd then add the addenda that should Cover, Spray or Heavy fire commence the same rule applies, ie you hit the deck or find cover if you can (taking damage as appropriate) or begin dancing like broken puppets to the tune of my whirling cannon...
As opposed to constantly shouting calls while your character’s brains are being splattered across the landscape…
Battle reffing works well in situations such as the fight at the end of the last event with people moving through cover and sniping taking place in move and fire conditions. In melees I feel that it can be very counter productive in a situation where people’s adrenaline is already working.
It’s a persistent problem in the game that I know has lost us players in the past. There is a good degree of ambivalence towards calls based gun combat. I’ve never had a problem with it as I feel it is the easiest and by far the most effective and flexible system available. However, without structure it might as well be playing soldiers in the school yard with sticks.
|
JT
|
I've always found it complex, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. There is no unnecessary complexity. It is a system that has evolved, but evolution does not always mean improvement. As I only turn up rarely, what I see are the leaps forward. The system looks a lot different to where we were for event one.
It's three years on, perhaps the system could to with a ground-up re-write, or a nerf at the high-end.
T.
|
dan
|
After only one event, my opnion is based on limited experience of SG, but I've done a few other LRP systems over the last 10 years and this one is the most complicated.
The NON-COMBAT rules are fine. The card system is great (if played discretely), as it lets you plan and execute your specific field of expertise and above all, customise your choices.
The COMBAT rules are hectic. Also, since it was my first event, not knowing everyone's name meant I was a much poorer shot than everyone else... (yelling, "James, double through" has much more effect than "Jaffa on the left, double through. No your left, yes you - the tall one. Oh, never mind, someone who knows your name has blown you to pieces").
My biggest single suggestion (which is very easy to implement), is restrict the rate at which people call damage. I heard some people screaming damage calls at such a rate is became a monotonous noise emanating from their frothing mouths. If everyone slows down calls no one is disavantaged and the fight becomes a lot clearer.
|
JT
|
Are you thinking of a Maelstrom-style 'One Second Rule' where attacks are limited to one per second?
The inherent issue with call-based systems is getting the target to realise they are the target and take the effect. Saying that, one of the strengths of SG's combat system is that it makes combat LOUD. That is a piece of atmosphere that I would not want to lose.
Calling out RL names, however, I would think of as poor form. We should all be calling "Tall Jaffa", "Jaffa behind the tree" or "Machinegunner" rather than "James" or "Sarah." RL names can be atmosphere breakers for me. I would think of it as borderline cheating. We should only be hearing them from Refs, and then only when necessary.
|
dan
|
I think you're right about the noise of yelling replicating the loud confusion of combat, but in my eyes (or ears) the balance isn't quite right.
|
darren1
|
| Quote: | | The inherent issue with call-based systems is getting the target to realise they are the target and take the effect. |
That's true. I've been unsure if I've received a hit in the past due to bad calls.
Whenever I monster I find sometimes in a heavy combat that people are shouting my name (or my character's) left, right and centre. The calls are fast and furious that rather than attempt to count how many hits I've received I just fall over dead assuming that the npc I was playing got enough hits to be taken out.
Usually when playing if I take lots of hit's I act injured and have an estimate of my health. Then when I'm down I work out what my actual health is. I generally use the rule of common sense.
For the last few games Jason Andrews has suddenly started wearing glasses. This is so myself Darren can see who to shoot at and call the correct name. Then again I'm not too good at learning names 
In short I find combat a little difficult, although still exciting and fun.
|
Jean-Pierre
|
| Quote: | | Calling out RL names, however, I would think of as poor form. |
But very much required when there are 5 jaffa all standing behind trees.
Calling jaffa behind the tree on the left isnt godo enough. He doesnt know if he is the one furthest on the left or if its his or your left. He does know his name is Rob though and that i am clearly shooting him.
|
Freeman
|
| Jean-Pierre wrote: | | Quote: | | Calling out RL names, however, I would think of as poor form. |
But very much required when there are 5 jaffa all standing behind trees.
Calling jaffa behind the tree on the left isnt godo enough. He doesnt know if he is the one furthest on the left or if its his or your left. He does know his name is Rob though and that i am clearly shooting him. |
A damage call is an OOC mechanic to kick off an IC effect. Why is it bad form to use OOC names to identify the target?
|
JT
|
Personally, I find someone shouting my name at me breaks my immersion. Additionally, it disadvantages the person who doesn't know my name, who has equal right to cause effect. Some people are just poor with names. The idea that I should have to try to commit to memory the real names of 30-40 people at event is just a gamebreaker.
Moreover, what happens when you don't know that person's name? Do you rely on the idea that someone else will know it and leave them to deal with it? Do you break character to ask someone else? or do you revert to a purely descriptive call?
When I'm in character, or in monster, the only time I want my name shouted at me is by a ref, medic, or other member of the event staff.
As I've said before, I find the confusion engendered by combat in this system to be an advantage. It greatly adds to the immersion. If a call is unclear or ill-defined, then it should not have effect. Calls should be made for precise effect. It is for refs to get involved and tell people to slow down or annunciate or better indicate.the target, just as much as to ensure that targets take effects.
|
Richard Tyler
|
if you are the only person the player team know by name you will be shot at a lot more fersure
We did take some coloured velcro ties to the last event, the idea being you wore them around your arm so you could be 'green jaffa' or 'ref jaffa' but we didn't get around to using them. They probably would have dissolved in the wet 
Red Jaffa Shot the Food!
|
Dangermouse
|
Green Sniper needs food, badly.
Given the frenetic pace of combat I have no problem with someone shouting my real name - its just a tag. I don`t know every players name (or their character name even) so to be honest the names don`t mean alot and don`t break the "immersion". If anything they help it since there`s less bickering over who did or didn`t get shot.
|
Colour Sargent Rob Knight
|
I agree names should be used if nesecery to indicate targets, I know that on the mission before last, my shooting improved a lot when I started using names, it makes it esayier and faster, but I often find in the heat of combat I forget for an instant, (Which is critical) ooc names, on that same mission I was shooting at James, I knew it was james, but it took me a second to rember I knew and in that time he was out of site, not his fault at all, mine for fumbleing the ball.
I think people should do the best they can, if they know/ can rember the ooc name use it as it saves confusion, if not do the best they can and keep your ears open for calls which are meant to be you.
|
Richard Tyler
|
1/3 the crew at the last event were called James
|
Fenric
|
28.57% actually, unless you take the fact that Dave and Woody crewed friday night when it's 1/3rd.
I like math.
|
Theo
|
I've never had a problem with players or crew using names (either IC or OOC) to identify targets. Sure, it might not be 'real' but nor is pointing a plastic gun at a man in foam armour and shouting 'You By The Tree!' to shoot at him. So long as you clearly designate your target so that they know who you're firing at then that is good enough. I would even go as far to say that, often, names are even necessary in the mayhem of a big fight or one in the dark.
Of course refs are also on hand to help out the deafys and the oblivious but its pretty poor form to know someone is shooting you because they're calling your name, and you not taking the hits properly just because its not quasi real enough for your taste (and i know i've had to rebuke people for that in the past before).
There really isn't any other way to do it, is there? The main thing is communicating who your target is and so long as you're doing that then its always a valid call. ('Old Man!' has probs been my fave ever identifier *grin*)
|
sm0keyb
|
I'm going to stop responding to that one since all my friends reckon I'm a big kid now 'cos I couldn't really disguise how I hurt my ribs. They all think I go playing Cowboys & Indians at weekends!
|
Dangermouse
|
Well my youngest thinks I go to play in mud (and that was from the Exeter event).
It`s now all "are you going to play mud daddy".
|
|
|
