Re: Age

Tabitha Becker

I don't know if I've misunderstood your point, but I can't quite see the problem that you are getting at. As far as I understand it, the SEF as we have created it will hire any person, at any age, if they are the right person for the job*.

Any player starting a character will only have the points to create a character with a limited range of skills, and that means that our actual skill set may not fit our professed character - especially if that's a character of high rank or long experience - until we've been playing a while. But that's always the case with a role play system where you collect points I think? It seems to be true of tabletop as well I'd say. And it applies equally to all players of all ages I think.

As I say perhaps I've missed your point.

*Unless they are under 16 or under 18 but I think that's more of an OC thing - in the show there have been children on base for one reason and another.

Broz

I'm with Polly on this one.

TBH Nigel I think you're creating a problerm that doesn't exist. Personnally I take the approch that the character's background gets them through the door, at which point it becomes what you make of it in contact with the game and the character's interaction with a world completly outside of their experience and comfort zone, being a shit hot electrical engineer is going to come to limited use when dealing with a ZPM. Appropriate choice and use of feats would strike me as an appropriate approch

Further to that, one idea might be when creating a character, the player gets to pick a few feats at generation to give them a bit more flavour. It might also be an idea for one or more new background feats?

The system you mention from An Evening of Science and Mystery, while great is intended as very particular to that game and setting and represents significant benefits for significant costs. Hence why Professor Kaptain Kazimirez Kurz has an actinicly motivated ballistic rocket firing submersible but spent sixty bitter radiation soaked years building it.

sm0keyb

O.K. I'll try to be clearer. I've shied away from this for a long time, 'cos I'm well aware that it looks like I'm just after some snackies for myself. It's a problem with every larp system that however senior your character is, at startup you can only pick from the same abilities/ feats etc as everybody else in the system. That's broadly fair & I can certainly see the difficulties in doing it any other way. I agree that you can tailor your character a good deal by judicious choice of feats. For a player in the age range of say 18 to 45, maybe 50 they can play a character of whatever age they like, especially if you want to "age" your character to match their seniority.

I'm 63. I've got a busted up shoulder & back. I'm probably 15 years older than the next oldest larper I know. There is no way I can play a character 20 years younger than myself. Any character I do play would have to be really special in some way to be in the SEF at any age that I could play. As Polly puts it, to be "the right person for the job". If I play a character with exactly the same character creation picks as someone half my age, that character simply wouldn't be plausible in the context.

Now I don't want to ask for special treatment 'cos I'm an old fart, so I do think that playing a veteran character should be open to all. Also I don't think it should be a route to creating super characters that completely overmatch everybody else, so I think you'd have to tailor the character creation choices to give grater specialization in a given area, and you'd have to play the character as being of advanced years (or in my case just be of advanced years.

I know I've got a particular viewpoint on this 'cos I am that old. If nobody else thinks the veteran character choice at character creation is a worthwhile choice, then I guess I'll have to live with it. I don't want special treatment. I didn't think I'd be able to create a new character after Connor but then Thorne came along, maybe it'll happen again but at the moment I can't see any viable character that I could play when Thorne cops it. Retiring would be a big disappointment 'cos I massively enjoy the game.

RHys Llewellyn

I dont think this is a rules issue, but a roleplay issue, but still a farly comman one that does no harm to discuss.
I agree one of the hardest things with LARP is the play something your Physically not. I hope to have a 16 year old playing a PHD physiciatist with me, but odd for certain. Certainly characters with that higher level of seniority or experience should act like it.

Out of curiosity how old would you say the former Gefforey Manning was? (i had submitted a Date of Birth and background so it was fixed.)

On another note Nigel, I have a nice Shiny new red briefcase never been used, you could always play a Civil Servant Smile

sm0keyb

I wouldn't dare to try to out bureaucratise Geffory. I reckon he was in his early 40s.

Actually, I was very nearly gifted a character in one of the NPCs I played last game. Unfortunately, I don't think he'd have a place in the SEF at all.

Woody

Sorry to disgaree Nigel but I do think that its all about the background and there will always be ways of explaining why someone of advancing years has only just been brought into the program. It all depends on what you want to play and how you want to play it. If you have an idea for a background or even a set of skills some of us have been doing both table top and LRP for years and can work out appropriate backgrounds for the most unexplainable of backgrounds. Plus don't forget the old favourite. Experiment gone wrong. You ID may say major aged 35 but a dodgy trip through the stargate aged you prematurly.

Tabitha Becker

Right, I see, you are basically talking about merits and flaws. I certainly can't see any reason why we shouldn't discuss whether we wanted to add merits and flaws to the game, but I'd argue for discussing this more generally, not just in the one instance. But I would be against using merits and flaws to have to actually allow for real reality as opposed to just making a character more interesting and I'd rather get the one issue resolved before talking about the other one.

As Woody says there are loads of background tweaks that you can use to make sense of anything. There's a sort of long leash between reality and Stargate reality as well I think. The SEF is relatively flexible in its entry requirements, the other LRPers are relatively generous with their imaginations, and the game doesn't tax us as bluntly as reality would. That has limitations too obviously - there will still be things we can't do in the game - can't be acrobatic if we're not, or funny, or beautiful, or young, or old. And there may be things we can do outside the game which we can't do inside, because of not enough points. It's a leveller.

It is great having you in the game Nigel and I certainly wouldn't want you to leave, much less because you felt that you had to. In the unhappy event that anything happens to Thorne, you should definitely sit down with some people and talk about what you want for your character and how to get there. I'd also be happy to discuss this further but I think it would be more productive to do in person than on the boards - as you can see I've already rambled on far too long - perhaps at the next event?

Tempest

How about if you could use some of your skill picks at character creation to get you extra cards on a skill game based skill, ie you’ve been an electrical engineer for years, its all you really know but youre damn good at it. (This would obviously need an addition to the rules). Or as others have suggested an inventive background can answer all kinds of problems, I like Woodys suggestion of having been prematurely aged while stepping through the stargate.

Perhaps combine your main skill choice with a few veteran skills to represent the fact you’ve been around the block a few time. Lots of options out there I think.

Jade Dragon

Id have to disagree somewhat (though I do see what point you are trying to make) on the making players choose characters and skills dependant on age. After all the whole point of going to a roll play is so you get to NOT be yourself for a bit.

For example if your characters are based on physical discription alone then surely most of the players characters wouldnt be allowed. How many people turning up would actually have the physical stats in real life to be a part of a military specialist organisation, or carry around all that heavy artilliry...etc. Also if its based on physical discription then people would be able to be characters from other ethnic backgrounds, or Aliens for example.

And if its experience and knowledge that comes with age well i know alot of younger people than me that know alot more about different things then I ever will. People learn and develop differently.

Surely a character choice should be about peoples imagination and roleplaying ability not age.

sm0keyb

Jess Parker

Forgive me if this has been suggested before, but would it work if you could double up on a skill, for example you could take double engineering and start with a greater amount of cards but a narrower skill set?

How does rank work? Could you go to the plot co-ord and state your case for being a high rank due to seniorority and have it passed?

I do like the idea of veteran skills, but we would need to see what the system refs have to offer as it would mean some new rules being passed. A veteran skill could be coupled with a flaw, for example a Gulf War Vet who is missing a limb so uses a crutch and is slower than the average joe, but is a leadership and tactical genius.

Tabitha Becker

Take one skill 2 or 3 times at character creation instead of 3 different ones? That sounds like it could work, I can't see a problem with it immediately. I haven't been following the ins and outs of the medic discussion, but might this idea help with that as well?

darren1

I know quite a few table top rpgs have attempted to address older pcs.
From Traveller (with the increasing risk of dying in character generation the older your character got) to dnd and wfrp that started to reduce certain stats with age.
I'm not sure how this would translate to the world of larp, handicapping physical skills to improve knowledge based skills maybe. Or restricting feats in some way for a character with more starting skills (from limiting feats to 2 per event rather than 3 or making certain feats or maybe permanent feats unavailable).

Freeman

If an 'older' character is to be considered less than spritely, perhaps it may be pheasable to cap the vitality at 8 and start at 4 .. or something similar?

Sarge

I'm keeping a close eye on this one Nige as I am only 11 years behind you and I dont think anyone will want to hire a short sighted sniper

We've been round the block so we DO know whats round the corner

Vets rule

Tabitha Becker

Jade Dragon

Earthbinder

sorry to jump the shark here but

Chris L

Couldn't it be that the older a character is the lower his body and vitality gets but the skill points at character generation are boosted. So something like this:

18 - 35 : Vitality 6, Body 6 and normal Skill points for you profession

36 - 49 : Vit 4, Body 4 and 2 more Skill points

50 - 69 : Vit 3, Body 3 and 3 more points (Cannot take Expert body builder)

70 - 85 : Vit 2, Body 2 an 4 more points (Cannot take body builder or cat like reflexes)

86 - 100 : System refs discretion.

This is just something thrown together, and would need lots of balancing but the point of the idea is there.

Chris.

Moridin

comedyofhate

hmm, having thought about this a bit more.

leave the rules as they are. everyone is heroic, let everyone be heroes. age should not matter one bit. every player that gens a bog standard new character has the same starting options.

Simple is always good. Smile

sm0keyb · Re: Age

Richard Tyler

A bit like the old 'Veteran of the Wierd West' skill for Deadlands ? extra shnackys for providing a thorough background (usually containing plenty of jucy details to screw you over at a later date Smile

) On a more basic level would people be aggreable prehaps to a trade up of body or vitality for extra skills at character gen ? Just a thought and would need properly exploring but could work in situations like this.

Jess Parker

comedyofhate

well if people are determined that older characters are going to get access to more skills. what does 1 vitality equate to0?

A single skill pick? more than one Is there going to be a limitation based on the skill picks?
based on training time? how much training time?
or just skill picks?

if body / vitality is going to be spent I would reccomend body not vitality if its just a single skill pick, as vitality is easily gained every event and represents how heroic a character is whilst body represents physical health.. Normaly humans should only have 3.

Oh and what about characters who just never really exercised much or who are invalids who dont get otu much? can they get access to the merit / flaw? What if they they have been both old and invalids can they get it twice? What about the degeneration of reactions? Oh and how older people generally take a longer time to heal from serious injuries?

Oh and If someone who was 18, is happy to wear a grey wig and make themselves look old I presume everybody would be happy with them taking that (merit/flaw)? Oh and would all older players be forced to take this merit and flaw? Based on Nigels assumption that older characters should have a greater depth of experience, then presumably all of them would have to take it?

Dont get me wrong I am fairly neutral to the idea of of it, my main concern is game balance for starting characters. It could work well for for NEW characters .I dont like the idea for ret conning EXISTING characters to give them more snackies.

Iif merits and flaws are introduced I would advise making sure each merit comes with a flaw that cannot be purchased off, cannot be removed with snazy equipment and is a genuine flaw. Anything that promotes min maxing, will essentially turn me off the system completely.

Richard Tyler

Well it would have to be decided at character gen, so no ret-conning. As for costs it would need to be worked out properly but 1 body or 3 vitality doesn't sound unreasonable. There would need to be caveats I'd guess (like wearing a grey wig and beard if they arent naturally occuring Wink

) and only purchaceable once. It's not really merits and flaws and I dont think anyone is suggesting that. It's just a potential way of answering the problem.

Tabitha Becker

Klaus Von Bekk

i like this idea, having the ability to make my character nerdy and weak i would have definately chosen it in favour to get more skills, (ie: i spend time reading books instead of at the gym)

i think 1 or 2 body for one extra skill choice at char gen is good, and as previously stated its up to the background as to why they have it Very Happy

i think remove body not vitality, as you can be a weedy hero, Smile

i also like the idea of double buying a skill to max out the cards on it
ie: 1 char gen skill spent on mech eng give a 6 card hand
2 char gen skills spent on mech eng give an 8/9 card hand

to represent specailists Very Happy

will x

Meyrick

It seems to be worthwhile looking at this and working out the numbers.

My humble opinions on the matter are...

1. Initially we just look at the extra-skills-for-physical-stats solution. Full blown merits and flaws require a lot more policing as players are absolutely ingenious when it comes to combining seemingly innocuous elements into a game-breaking horror. That's not to rule out more interesting things, just to say we should take it slowly.

2. We don't revise any existing characters. It happens and character gen and not thereafter.

3. We don't force anyone to take "merits & flaws" - they can decide as suits their background. After all, my Aikido teacher was over seventy and he could beat me like a wet fish without breaking sweat. Likewise I’m overweight and my back is kronked, so I'm hardly a model of fitness at 38.

4. The numbers should balance out so that, roughly speaking, you get as much 'extra downtime' to buy extra skills with as it would have taken to earn the Vitality or Body you cash in. Numbers we will wiggle about with, obviously.

5. We put a 'sensible' limit on how much of this can be done. I'd want to avoid the equivalent of the "magical twigs" (spell-casting elves usually) that other systems can allow. Supremely powerful until you actually hit them, at which point they instantly die. The idea should be to expand the area of the bell curve that we are using, but not open up the entire thing.

6. Whatever you take, like everything else in the game, should be roleplayed out… even if that does mean having to put up with more emo-ing from certain people. Very Happy