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comedyofhate · Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 364

Had some comments about lucky / jammy bastard, want to get a feel before I start thinking on it.

Poll is multiple choice? Oddly will there is a couple of tweaks I would like in the rules, I am fairly neutral on this, so your thoughts would be apprreciated.
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Olivia Chase · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject:

My thoughts are not above, as they are a combination. Now I don't play combaty characters, but I do believe Jammy Bastard is bloody useful and has saved many a character (I actually had to use it myself *shock horror*).

However (and this is the controversial thought here) they can build up so much over time, and you can if you wish, have nine of them over an event, use 5 = lucky bastard, next event another 9, use five, another trade up etc that a character becomes sooo hard to take down because they have so many of them, which can be hard to judge when writing events and fair and balanced combats (which affects every system known to man).

There are two possible ways I can bring to the table for discussion (just as ideas to bounce from)

Firstly, use the feat to counter another feat or skill. So, Jammy Bastard will deflect sniper shots, strikes, critical hits etc, but not 'normal' damage. This will however make the combat rules more complex and make life more risky for the newbies on starting vitality.

Secondly, leave the feat exactly as it is, but cap them at at certain point (don't know what though) so you can have some Jammies and Lucky's, but either

a) Cannot have more than a certain amount at a time (ie five Jammies, you must use one, to take another one) and no more than 2 or three permanents, or

b) Irregardless of how many you have spent, you can only take a certain amount of temporaries over the event. Once they have gone, they have gone.

It is a tricky balance and I can see why comments are being made now. The trick is ensuring that combat is dangerous enough to challange the players, without them all ending up in the infirmary on -3 and below (and thus out the game) on the Friday night or Saturday morning! Folks pay to play an event, but the player must be in genuine fear for their character's life every now and then. A toughie.

Feats are heroic gifts, we should use them wisely.
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Doc Benton · Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 329 Location: Good question!!

if we do this to one feat then it will end up being to them all.

i think is powere full yes but the same gos for other call for an exsampl

sniper shot put you on -4 (and there is nothing in place to stop some one stacking them up eather i bleave the 1st fight i hand with mr P he had at least 5 to 6???)in one hit no armour no viltatiy wich meens (if im not wroing) you can do nothing about one you have been hit other that start to die self stabiles can not be used nor can die hard the only one that can is deaths door that give you +3min death count.

i think if we change it so there is poss a cap will be hard to keep track of both from a ref point and a player point but my be restrick them to tak one a day insted of taking all 3 feat as jam b*.

just my thorts
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GefforyManning · Guest

Another possibility is that jammy bastard uses 2 vitality when used.

Freeman · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 1607 Location: SEFHQ

The main issue seems to be volume.
Some of us are 'multi-classed' in our characters and have a wide range of skills and, need a wider range of feats to supplement them. For those characters Jammy and Lucky are just fine as they are, as those characters generally only have 5 at most.

However, some of us are pure combat orientated, so are stocked up with the likes of Jammy / Lucky Critical hit etc to the exclusion of all else, which means those characters do stockpile them, so when the shit hits the fan they can spam out 15+ Lucky / Jammy in one combat. It's at that point that it seems a tad excessive, and maybe even broken.

So perhaps limiting the number of feats of any title that a character can have to, for the sake of argument, 5 would cut down significantly on that happening.
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Tempest · Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 56

I dont really like the idea of having a fatigue cost to using JB's or LB's. Unless perhaps JB's cost you vitality but the upgrade didnt (as its an upgrade).

Personally id like to see it stay as it is but if your looking for suggested changes Id perhaps limit your ability to use JB's based on how much armor your wearing so that wearing tons of armor encumbers you slightly and limits your ability to be diving out of the way. eg No to 1 piece of armor - no limit, 2 locations armored - max of 3 JB's per mission, 3 locations or more - max of 2 JB's.

I dont think it needs changing but just adding ideas to the pot Very Happy

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sm0keyb · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 1359

J or L Bs are essential. Even if you cocoon yourself all w/e (in which case, why did you come?) a run of bad luck sometime is inevitable. If you're a pure combat char you can keep taking JBs but if you want to develop your char in any other way you need a few luckies under your belt to free you up to take other feats. you can't go for any "heroics" without them.
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dante73 · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

Broz · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject:

With Leon here. If a character has totally focused on a skill area then they aren't over powered, just bloody good at one thing to the exclusion of all else.

Frankly with the increased lethality of the combat system a change in JB would strike me as nothing more than a desire to thin the pack. Espchially noticable in the case of A Personal Sense of Purpose, those JBs are needed to soak Through Damage so you'll be able to top off vitality and keep the hero thing going.

Having seen combats grind to a halt I think it's important that a chracter can (at a cost to their feats) step up, start kicking arse and lead from the front.

If you want to go and burn all of your feats on JB that's your decision (just hope you never need to jury rig a DHD or get infected with somthing.)

I'm not into the idea of mechanically imposing fatigue or armour restrictions on JB either.

Again with vitality, as it's atrittion rate is now much higher, there is no longer a percieved need to counter toughness creep (body builder and vitality brought at generation being nothing like as formidable as they once were.)

Armour itself is a hard vs soft skill issue. I would rather the players were limited by their props and personal OC and IC preferance on how much armour they took than by too many mechanical rules for encumberance.

Case in point I brought two suits to represent full Materials and the heavier Kinetic armour (arms, legs, thighs, shoulders, head, gorget, collar, deltoid, groin, feet.)

Because of the rain and humidity I choose to wear the bare minimum and accept having a third of the extra body. If I want the greater protection then I will have to bear the added discomfort (and having worn a suit of powered armour in a nightclub in July I know how that can feel.)

In character you may be a hard arsed marine, able to tab 40 miles with a 50 pound pack and thus be able to bear the added weight, the downsides already present as an OC factor, this was always what I took as implicit in the armour rules.
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Freeman · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 1607 Location: SEFHQ

Guys, I'm not saying that being focused in one area isn't going to make you bloody good at what you do. But I'm saying that having 15+ jammies and luckies might just be a little excessive?

Maybe it's me, maybe Freeman's too far spread out in his skills and feats, and 3 JB and a Lucky just isn't enough.

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